Fake Book of Mormon Geography -- holes in the script

[Shulem]

Here is a hole in the script for 2 Nephi 5

7 And we did take our tents and whatsoever things were possible for us, and did journey in the wilderness for the space of many days. And after we had journeyed for the space of many days we did pitch our tents.

8 And my people would that we should call the name of the place Nephi; wherefore, we did call it Nephi.

HOLE IN THE SCRIPT:

Nephi indicates that he and his followers collected everything they could carry and took off into the wilderness. This was supposed to be a separation from the Lamanites where more or less they were fleeing to assume a separate existence away from their enemies. The text should NOT have said “for the space of many days”, but a properly documented record in this respect would have listed the days traveled in order to calculate distance and location to maintain a strategic and tactical accounting to protect themselves from their enemy. Not keeping track of the distance and time is a sure sign that the story isn’t being told by a real person facing real circumstances. It’s just a make-believe story being written by Smith who failed to realize the absolute importance of real circumstances in that Nephi would have taken care to know his surroundings and circumstances with regards to the location and proximity of potential mortal enemies.

[Shulem]

Interestingly enough, Smith actually thinks to record the time for the journey when Nephi left Jerusalem but the inconsistency between this and Nephi fleeing from the Lamanites as quoted earlier is glaringly obvious:

6 And it came to pass that when he had traveled three days in the wilderness, he pitched his tent in a valley by the side of a river of water.

Another important journey documents the time spent traveling:

13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place Shazer.

Then, Smith goes back to being inconsistent with his story as if his characters were so tired that they lost track of all sense of time:

15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, slaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.

17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.

33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.

Lo and behold, Smith seems to remind himself that he better be consistent with his story and keep better track of time lest his characters get lost:

4 And now, they knew not the course they should travel in the wilderness to go up to the land of Lehi-Nephi; therefore they wandered many days in the wilderness, even forty days did they wander.

5 And when they had wandered forty days they came to a hill, which is north of the land of Shilom, and there they pitched their tents.

But back to inconsistency and a total loss of keeping track of time, even when lost in the wilderness:

8 And they were lost in the wilderness for the space of many days, yet they were diligent, and found not the land of Zarahemla but returned to this land, having traveled in a land among many waters, having discovered a land which was covered with bones of men, and of beasts, and was also covered with ruins of buildings of every kind, having discovered a land which had been peopled with a people who were as numerous as the hosts of Israel.

4 Nevertheless, after many days’ wandering in the wilderness we pitched our tents in the place where our brethren were slain, which was near to the land of our fathers.

13 And after being many days in the wilderness they arrived in the land of Zarahemla, and joined Mosiah’s people, and became his subjects.

But back to being consistent and keeping track of time:

16 And after they had pursued them two days, they could no longer follow their tracks; therefore they were lost in the wilderness.

3 And they fled eight days’ journey into the wilderness.

25 And after they had been in the wilderness twelve days they arrived in the land of Zarahemla; and king Mosiah did also receive them with joy.

6 So that when he had finished his work at Melek he departed thence, and traveled three days’ journey on the north of the land of Melek; and he came to a city which was called Ammonihah.

Only to be inconsistent yet again:

9 And it came to pass that they journeyed many days in the wilderness . . . .

3 And the Lord warned Omer in a dream that he should depart out of the land; wherefore Omer departed out of the land with his family, and traveled many days, and came over and passed by the hill of Shim, and came over by the place where the Nephites were destroyed, and from thence eastward, and came to a place which was called Ablom, by the seashore, and there he pitched his tent, and also his sons and his daughters, and all his household, save it were Jared and his family.

And back to consistency:

26 And it came to pass that Shiz did pursue Coriantumr eastward, even to the borders by the seashore, and there he gave battle unto Shiz for the space of three days.

Joseph Smith's record keeping in telling stories is an utter mess.

[Shulem]

It's interesting to point out that the phrase "for the space of many days", is mentioned a total of 11 times in the Book of Mormon, almost all of them during the early history. 9 utterances are given by Nephi, 1 by Nephi's brother Jacob, and 1 several hundred years later by Ammon:

15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, slaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.

17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.

33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.

7 And it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had been in the land of Bountiful for the space of many days, the voice of the Lord came unto me, saying: Arise, and get thee into the mountain. And it came to pass that I arose and went up into the mountain, and cried unto the Lord.

52 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said many things unto my brethren, insomuch that they were confounded and could not contend against me; neither durst they lay their hands upon me nor touch me with their fingers, even for the space of many days. Now they durst not do this lest they should wither before me, so powerful was the Spirit of God; and thus it had wrought upon them.

9 And after we had been driven forth before the wind for the space of many days, behold, my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and also their wives began to make themselves merry, insomuch that they began to dance, and to sing, and to speak with much rudeness, yea, even that they did forget by what power they had been brought thither; yea, they were lifted up unto exceeding rudeness.

23 And it came to pass that after we had sailed for the space of many days we did arrive at the promised land; and we went forth upon the land, and did pitch our tents; and we did call it the promised land.

7 And we did take our tents and whatsoever things were possible for us, and did journey in the wilderness for the space of many days. And after we had journeyed for the space of many days we did pitch our tents.

15 And it came to pass that when I, Jacob, had spoken these words, the power of the Lord came upon him, insomuch that he fell to the earth. And it came to pass that he was nourished for the space of many days.

8 And they were lost in the wilderness for the space of many days, yet they were diligent, and found not the land of Zarahemla but returned to this land, having traveled in a land among many waters, having discovered a land which was covered with bones of men, and of beasts, and was also covered with ruins of buildings of every kind, having discovered a land which had been peopled with a people who were as numerous as the hosts of Israel.

It could be argued that the most critical circumstances when the phrase "for the space of many days" should not have have been written into the story was in the instance when Nephi was gathering his people to flee into the wilderness and escape persecution from the Lamanites -- seeking their own autonomy. Time was of the essence and calculated decisions involving their journey away from their enemy was vital if they were to secure their personal safety. Bear in mind that Nephi's life was threatened by his older brethren and the Lord warned him that he was to immediately depart and flee into the wilderness, and all those who would go with him. There was no time to waste but in their haste they left. It's inconceivable that the story does not record the number of days in which Nephi journeyed in the wilderness to separate himself from his murderous brethren. This is the one time when it should have been recorded and it wasn't. Why? Because Smith and Cowdery screwed up while playing translation games through a magic rock in a hat!

Joe, screwed up, probably while Cowdery was busy fiddling with an itch between his legs. Idiots.

[BlueFunk96]

HOLE IN THE SCRIPT:

Nephi indicates that he and his followers collected everything they could carry and took off into the wilderness. This was supposed to be a separation from the Lamanites where more or less they were fleeing to assume a separate existence away from their enemies. The text should NOT have said “for the space of many days”, but a properly documented record in this respect would have listed the days traveled in order to calculate distance and location to maintain a strategic and tactical accounting to protect themselves from their enemy. Not keeping track of the distance and time is a sure sign that the story isn’t being told by a real person facing real circumstances. It’s just a make-believe story being written by Smith who failed to realize the absolute importance of real circumstances in that Nephi would have taken care to know his surroundings and circumstances with regards to the location and proximity of potential mortal enemies.

I'm sure that was in the lost 116 pages.

[Shulem]

I'm sure that was in the lost 116 pages.

After the voyage, Lehi and his family disembarked and went forth straightway upon the promised land, pitched their tents, tilled the earth, and planted all their seeds which they had brought from the Old World. They had a great growing season and were abundantly successful -- and enjoyed bumper crops. They journeyed about in the wilderness finding everything they needed and raised animals, melted metals, and generally prospered.

The Book of Mormon narrative maintains an internal chronology making use of an annual calendar throughout the entire history of the book. Therefore, accordingly, the number of days from the time Nephi departed the original land where Lehi died and then settling into the land of Nephi, had to have been counted in order to keep the chronology up to date. I can't think of a single reason why the character of Nephi in the Book of Mormon didn't record the number of days it took to set out, find, and establish the land of Nephi, and start anew. All we are told is that it was many days whereby they carried their tents and journeyed into the wilderness in search of a place they called the land of Nephi.

It makes me wonder if the number was in fact recorded in the missing 116 lost pages and Smith wasn't able to resurrect the number because he couldn't remember. Could it be?

Yes!

Nephi Flees his Brethren

Nephi indicates that he and his followers collected everything they could carry and took off into the wilderness. This departure marked the separation from the Lamanites when Nephi fled to assume a separate existence away from his enemies. The text should not have said, “for the space of many days”, but a properly documented record in this respect would have mentioned the number of days traveled in order to calculate distance and location to maintain a strategic and tactical plan to protect themselves from the enemy they left behind. Not keeping track of the distance and time seems to indicate that the story isn’t being told by a real person facing real circumstances or perhaps Smith intentionally left it out because he couldn’t remember the number of days he had cited in the original story that was related to Martin Harris in the lost 116 page manuscript (Wikipedia). I find it inconceivable that Nephi wouldn’t have carefully calculated his surroundings and circumstances with regards to the location and proximity of his potential mortal enemies that he left behind. I’m confident that the original lost 116 page manuscript told the same story of Nephi separating from his brethren but accounted for the exact number of days that they journeyed in the wilderness. The problem for Smith in recreating the story was that he could not remember the number of days that his scribe Harris originally recorded in the story and so rather than contradict the original he simply substituted the forgotten number with “for the space of many days”, which is exactly what Oliver Cowdery wrote down.

[Shulem]

I'm sure that was in the lost 116 pages.

Indeed, and I think the same can be said for the transoceanic crossings in which Nephi NEGLECTS to record the number of days the voyage took to get to the promised land because Smith couldn't remember what he originally wrote in the 116 lost pages!

Thanks for being here, BlueFunk. Welcome to Mormon Discussions or Discuss Mormonism, whatever the hell it is.

23 And it came to pass that after we had sailed for the space of many days we did arrive at the promised land; and we went forth upon the land, and did pitch our tents; and we did call it the promised land.

Dear Lucy Harris,

Kindly check your manuscript and let us know how many days it took for Lehi and his family to sail across the ocean.

Thanks,

Shulem

[Shulem]

The voyage, the voyage, across the ocean to the promised land, oh, uh, how many years did I say it took in which Martin Harris first wrote it down? If only I could remember.

Sigh. I can't remember. Damn.

. . . . sailed for the space of many days

[Brack]

It took Jared, his brother and their families 344 days to cross the ocean.

Ether 6:11 - And thus they were driven forth, three hundred and forty and four days upon the water.

I believe that the exact number of days it took Lehi and his family to cross the ocean was in the lost 116 pages.

[Shulem]

It took Jared, his brother and their families 344 days to cross the ocean.

Ether 6:11 - And thus they were driven forth, three hundred and forty and four days upon the water.

I believe that the exact number of days it took Lehi and his family to cross the ocean was in the lost 116 pages.

Thank you for that, Brack!

The story of the Jaredite voyage which came later during Smith's translation with Cowdery was faithfully recorded to include the number of days at sea. But, the number of days for the voyage of Nephi's ship is not recorded by Cowdery because Smith couldn't recall what he told Martin Harris during the first translation which was lost. So, Smith simply applied a get out of jail card answer, "for the space of many days."

[kairos]

"S man"- you continue to put nails in the Book of Mormon coffin-keep it up.

Can you shoot holes in sorenson geography by using the average daily trek of a nephite family, maybe 5- 10 miles a day depending on their use of tapirs and sleds ( no wheels right), so that a 40 day wandering assuming it was not inn circles would yield a 40 x 5 or 40 and 10 miles ( mayan miles) thus 200 - 400 miles as a boundary limitation.

final question was moroni's trek to ny with 50-100 lbs of plates,about 1900 miles a record for that century?

k