The empty tomb and Mormonism’s aversion to cremation

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dastardly stem
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Re: The empty tomb and Mormonism’s aversion to cremation

Post by dastardly stem »

I think that God cares about us, but it's pretty clear that our wants are not a top priority for God.
Gods used to be storm gods (like Yahweh) or agricultural gods, fertility gods, and other such things, who had earthlike goals. Nowadays god's goal, at least traditionally, seems to be nothing more than saving some people and condemning others for his own pleasure and glory. His top priority is him, as would be the case for each of us and our priorities. Religion doesn't seem to teach that humans' wants are god's top priority generally, but the religious really do tend to think God's goal is simply to please them or help them. If you're saying god causes pain and suffering, and does murders and such, as traditional Christianity has suggested, then it seems all these stories suggest God's priority is him and people are his entertainment. Indeed as soon as someone who believes in God sees God in the context of traditional Christianity, and Judaism or Islam, for that matter, they would reasonably be forced to think God's top priority is him, and his wants are to build his own glory, exploiting his creations for that purpose, it appears.

On the other hand if one sees some god in their mind that doesn't incorporate the myth of Jesus or other such things, then they might see a God who made everything in existence, magically, somehow, and perhaps cares about planets, or atoms all equally. Humans are simply one combination of things that god may regard as a combination of atoms that will one day pass on to feed his lovely plants and animals, or something.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
drumdude
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Re: The empty tomb and Mormonism’s aversion to cremation

Post by drumdude »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2023 5:18 am
drumdude wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 4:41 pm
I guess Mormons believe he was just phase shifting between the spirit world and mortal world after his death?
No. Mormons believe He went to the spirit world after His death, just like everyone else, and was there for the three days prior to His resurrection.

Pardon the question, but were you ever a Mormon?
Converted for a girl. Should explain a lot.

As of the mid 2000s the lessons were pretty superficial. And Talmage and McConkies books were relegated to gathering dust on the shelves of the Mormon families I knew.
msnobody
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Re: The empty tomb and Mormonism’s aversion to cremation

Post by msnobody »

dastardly stem wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:03 pm
I think that God cares about us, but it's pretty clear that our wants are not a top priority for God.
Gods used to be storm gods (like Yahweh) or agricultural gods, fertility gods, and other such things, who had earthlike goals. Nowadays god's goal, at least traditionally, seems to be nothing more than saving some people and condemning others for his own pleasure and glory. His top priority is him, as would be the case for each of us and our priorities. Religion doesn't seem to teach that humans' wants are god's top priority generally, but the religious really do tend to think God's goal is simply to please them or help them. If you're saying god causes pain and suffering, and does murders and such, as traditional Christianity has suggested, then it seems all these stories suggest God's priority is him and people are his entertainment. Indeed as soon as someone who believes in God sees God in the context of traditional Christianity, and Judaism or Islam, for that matter, they would reasonably be forced to think God's top priority is him, and his wants are to build his own glory, exploiting his creations for that purpose, it appears.

On the other hand if one sees some god in their mind that doesn't incorporate the myth of Jesus or other such things, then they might see a God who made everything in existence, magically, somehow, and perhaps cares about planets, or atoms all equally. Humans are simply one combination of things that god may regard as a combination of atoms that will one day pass on to feed his lovely plants and animals, or something.
It’s late and I’m posting this while very tired.

I’d have to agree that our priorities tend to be or are ourselves. That is part of our fallen nature.

I disagree with you about God. God’s desire is to make us holy. He works 24/7 to seek and save the lost, desiring for us to live with him forever. One day, he is going to come again and gather to himself all who would come/call on him. (Let the one who desires take the water of life without price. Rev. 22:27). He has provided the way. We either receive the free gift or we reject it.

He doesn’t have to build his glory, he already possesses it. His glory is not dependent on us.
"Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them." Psalm 139:16 ESV
dastardly stem
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Re: The empty tomb and Mormonism’s aversion to cremation

Post by dastardly stem »

msnobody wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:54 am
It’s late and I’m posting this while very tired.

I’d have to agree that our priorities tend to be or are ourselves. That is part of our fallen nature.

I disagree with you about God. God’s desire is to make us holy. He works 24/7 to seek and save the lost, desiring for us to live with him forever. One day, he is going to come again and gather to himself all who would come/call on him. (Let the one who desires take the water of life without price. Rev. 22:27). He has provided the way. We either receive the free gift or we reject it.

He doesn’t have to build his glory, he already possesses it. His glory is not dependent on us.
[/quote]

Its pretty simple, if God wanted to save everyone, then everyone would be saved. All of creation, on Christian thought, was conceived of by God and made out of nothing from his imagination. He could have, as an all-powerful one, made it however he liked. We can only assume given the premises of Christian thinking, God planned what has transpired. For some reason, on this thought, he made us creatures, different from him. He made satan and hell, including heaven where subjects there will worship him forever. He intended for suffering and pain beginning with his hoped for creation. THat's the thing. He conceived of a most evil character ever, in Satan, and then made him. He conceived of a torturous place called hell where subjects will taste the bitterest of all pains at his hands, and then he created it. He conceived of an Adam and Eve knowing they would fall, and he proceeded to create them, out of nothing. He conceived of Cain killing his brother, then created him.

How anyone can take Christian assumptions about all of this and think God is good is confusing to me. There seems to be no hope or joy on Christian thought. If one is saved, they suffer the pains, if they are good people, for those who are lost while being forced to worship the one who began all evil. If one is not saved, then they too suffer the pains of his wrath.

Interestingly it doesn't seem God works at all. He doesn't have to lift a finger. And He's hidden. Magical....does what he wants....Work would include doing something. Not thinking things and then having one's imagination become reality. And it seems God has provided a way to him or to not him. Either way it sounds terrible.

THese seem to be nothing more than entailments of Christian premises.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
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bill4long
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Re: The empty tomb and Mormonism’s aversion to cremation

Post by bill4long »

All the molecules in your body are cycled about every seven years.

If there's any truth to a physical resurrection, surely the gods can put together a decent body for you no matter what.

What about people who die out at sea and eaten by sharks? Or get blown up? Etc. Etc.

The whole thing is stupid beyond repair.
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