Mormon at ages 11, 15, 24 is really Joseph Smith Jr., in disguise!

[Shulem]

There are unquestionably parallels between Joseph Smith and Mormon: they are closely parallel figures. I would hope everyone would recognize that. What people may disagree on is just the source and meaning of the parallels.

Come back and explain your happy parallels, Don. When did members of the Church first begin to recognize these parallels in Mormon? Which of the prophets in the past explained them to the general body of the Church? Can you answer that, please?

Don,

We are aware of the 11-15-24 "parallels." So also is Dr. John M. Butler who is an expert on DNA and produced an article entitled The “Author” and the “Finisher” of the Book of Mormon which amazingly introduces the 11-15-24 parallels.

You said earlier it was your hope that everyone would recognize these parallels although agreement on their meanings may vary. So, other than you, me, and Butler, who else recognizes these parallels and what have they said about them? As far as I know at this time, Butler and myself are the only persons to have written on this subject.

Please come back and explain. You my friend, are AWOL. You can run but you can't hide!

[Shulem]

There are unquestionably parallels between Joseph Smith and Mormon: they are closely parallel figures. I would hope everyone would recognize that.

Don,

Name one person associated with Joseph Smith while in Kirtland or Nauvoo who said anything about parallels between Mormon and Joseph Smith. Can you name a single soul?

For the record, to my knowledge, not a single member of the Church of the Latter-Day Saints said anything about Mormon being a type (11-15-24) of Joseph Smith or vice versa.

I'm afraid that Joseph Smith has been caught with his pants down, again. Look, what Smith wanted more than anything was to pork beautiful women and have his ego stroked. Smith was full of himself!

[Moksha]

I'm afraid that Joseph Smith has been caught with his pants down, again. Look, what Smith wanted more than anything was to pork beautiful women and have his ego stroked. Smith was full of himself!

Shulem, what if apologists said those are the qualities of a prophet and so that proves Joseph as the real deal?

[Shulem]

I'm afraid that Joseph Smith has been caught with his pants down, again. Look, what Smith wanted more than anything was to pork beautiful women and have his ego stroked. Smith was full of himself!

Shulem, what if apologists said those are the qualities of a prophet and so that proves Joseph as the real deal?

Apologists would be hard pressed to justify Smith's promiscuous ways as proof that he was acting like a true prophet. They will also be hard pressed to demonstrate how a fictional character (Mormon) was a prophetic type seeing that Mormon said nothing to that effect and neither did Joseph Smith in hindsight.

I believe the mystery of the secret combination (11-15-24) was embedded in the narrative to amuse Joseph. The joke is on all those who believe the Book of Mormon is a historical record based on real characters.

[Moksha]

The joke is on all those who believe the Book of Mormon is a historical record based on real characters.

What if the apologists said that the joke being on all those who believe the Book of Mormon is historical is proof that it is true?

[I Have Questions]

The ages and experiences had by Mormon & Joseph Smith parallel each other and are imbedded in Book of Mormon stories in order to raise Smith's ego to new heights and give him a sense of self-importance.

Thanks, Shulem, but I was hoping Don would give us his list of parallels so we could discuss how they DON’T lead him to believe that Mormon is a fictional character.

That would have been interesting. Maybe he’s written an article or a book about it? Or maybe the answer is by doubting his doubts.

[Shulem]

Thanks, Shulem, but I was hoping Don would give us his list of parallels so we could discuss how they DON’T lead him to believe that Mormon is a fictional character.

That would have been interesting. Maybe he’s written an article or a book about it? Or maybe the answer is by doubting his doubts.

Well, I don't know but let's take a peek at what Don Bradley wrote in his 2017 book "The Lost 116 Pages" (which I have yet to finish reading) and see if Bradley tips his hand about believing in parallels discussed in this thread.

The Book of Mormon affirms the value of being learned in its very first verse, where the prophet Nephi declares that he is able to create the sacred record precisely because he had been "taught somewhat in all the learning of my father" (1 Ne. 1:1). And the book's primary author, Mormon, declares that his childhood diligence at becoming learned was part of the reason he was chosen to keep his people's records—and hence to write the Book of Mormon (Morm. 1:2).

NOPE, no parallels that I can find. I've read 2/3 of Bradley's book and as far as I can tell there is nothing about parallels between Mormon & Joseph Smith. You'd think that a critical analysis of important elements of the Book of Mormon, especially things that are not known and fleshed out in a discovery mode would have been included. Bradley wants everyone to recognize such parallels as he indicated earlier in this thread but his book says nothing about them. His book should set the tone for other lost things such as parallels that are secretly imbedded in the text but have mathematical implications that strongly suggest Smith was making crap up as he imagined himself as a character in the book he invented.

Look, my hammer hit the nail on the head in showing how Joseph Smith was playing games with his family and friends and that he was the real author of the Book of Mormon! Folks, you've been had. That includes you, Don Bradley. Wake up!

During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals that could be imagined: he would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent; their dress, mode of travelling, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, and their buildings, with every particular; he would describe their mode of warfare, as also their religious worship. This he would do with as much ease, seemingly, as if he had spent his whole life with them.

[Shulem]

No other latter-day prophet matches Mormon as well as the Prophet Joseph. Perhaps he possessed many of Mormon’s attributes so that he could be more in tune with the compiler of the Book of Mormon as he translated it. Or, as James E. Talmage put it in his book The Articles of Faith, “The translator must have the spirit of the prophet if he would render in another tongue the prophet’s words” (237). The attributes, character, and even many of the activities of Mormon can be considered a type which foreshadowed the future translator. In this manner, the author and the finisher of the Book of Mormon have more in common than just the book which they helped bring forth.

Butler suggests that "perhaps" Joseph Smith possessed the same attributes as Mormon in order to qualify him for the work of understanding the spirit or mind of the ancient prophet and thus enabling him to correctly translate in a manner in which Mormon would approve. Butler considers the very attributes, character, and activities of ancient Mormon may have imbued Joseph Smith with a quality and likeness that made it possible for Smith to represent Mormon and speak his word. Thus, the 11-15-24 parallels were necessary in order to produce a type in which Smith could effectively translate.

Butler quotes Talmage (1899) who states that a translator must have the spirit of the ancient prophet in order to translate his work. This is what Talmage said:

There will be, there can be, no absolutely reliable translation of these or other scriptures, unless it be effected through the gift of translation, as one of the endowments of the Holy Ghost. The translator must have the spirit of the prophet if he would render in another tongue the prophet's words; and human wisdom leads not to that possession.

Talmage makes it clear that a translator must possess the spirit of the prophet in order to translate an ancient tongue into modern English. Smith claimed to translate what Mormon wrote on plates but he also claimed to translate what Abraham wrote on papyri, hence according to Talmage's formula, two minds (one ancient and one modern) are able to express the same thing. But we can test Smith's ability in translating the papyri and confirm there was no meeting of the minds! The Book of Abraham is bogus fiction just as the Book of Mormon is!

I wonder if Don Bradley (or Talmage for that matter) can offer parallels or types that suggest Abraham and Joseph Smith were on the same page in order to translate the false historical narrative of the Book of Abraham along with the shameful Explanations of the Facsimiles.

Where are you, Don? People here have asked you a sincere question and you have failed to respond. I don't think that's right.

[Shulem]

my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people.

A prophecy meant to fulfill the imaginary lives of Mormon & Moroni who in their time were known among all kindreds, tongues, and peoples in ancient America which is what Smith had in mind for himself during his time and ministry beginning at New York. Do you see the connection? Smith was fantasizing himself and his father into the novel as two men of great esteem and accomplishment. Folks, the obvious comparison is right there in front of us and the math (11,15,24) provides the key to show how Smith consciously built the story using his own life events and ages into the ancient setting whereby everything in Mormonism was all about Joseph Smith and how great he is. The numbers themselves confirm this! Smith picked up the ball where Mormon & Moroni left it and ran it in for a touchdown. The Book of Mormon is a kind of game that played out in the mind of Joseph Smith.

He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang.

Ammaron was the source in which Mormon received the plates which also typified Moroni as the source for which Smith would receive the same. It was a brilliant work of duplication on Smith's part to marry the origin story of the book to his own life and destiny. It really is fantastic when you think about it! The fantasy centers around the plates being secured by Mormon & Moroni and hidden in a hill for Joseph to someday unearth in order to enable him to tell the tale via a mysterious translation that could never be verified or confirmed by modern linguists through scientific analysis. The whole idea of having plates was supposed to be Smith's way of providing physical proof that the book was genuine. But that proof was never presented to the world in which it could be proven but remained as nothing more than a magician's prop for his assistants who would do his bidding and follow his lead. The so-called witnesses were biased and did what they were told by the magician himself. The whole operation was a plot built entirely upon Smith's deception.

I wonder if Don Bradley is willing to take that into consideration?

[Shulem]

The Church has an official five minute video about how Ammaron instructed Mormon concerning the plates and provides some details about Mormon's upbringing and calling. BUT nothing is said about types or parallels between ancient Mormon and modern day Joseph Smith! The Church doesn't go there! The Church doesn't know! It seems the only people that go there are people like Don Bradley and apostates such as myself. So, I think the position Don takes is rock solid but his church leaders are dumb, stupid, and ignorant. Isn't that right, Don? But you and I are the smart ones!

See video here:

Ammaron Instructs Mormon About the Records

PS. Don, please go on the Backyard Professor's show and tell us all about these types and parallels. Maybe your leaders in Salt Lake can learn about them and get the message through you. It's up to you to set the record straight. The prophets don't prophesy and the seers don't see. They are dumb, stupid, and blind about these things.

Thanks, Don!