How Much Are LDS Apologists Paid?

[_GoodK]

The funding for these summer fellowships--which were not exactly "apologetic ventures"--came from Karen and David Davidson and other private donors. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I have reason to believe that this year's seminar, though sponsored by the Maxwell Institute, is also privately funded. So it is not a case of FARMS "paying" apologists.

What are they if they were not apologetic ventures?

[_Chap]

No, no---those have definitely been substantiated. Someone in this very thread linked to a BYU website indicating that DCP is on some kind of "academic leave." As for #2, this was discussed on a separate thread, but there is a summer seminar at BYU (the current one is featuring Richard Bushman and Terryl Givens) in which participants are paid a stipend of $3,000, or something like that, for their 6-week participation. (I believe it was six weeks, though I could be wrong.)

Dr. Peterson may be on some kind of academic leave this year, but he was teaching at BYU last year. So it isn't the case that he doesn't teach there. As to the second point, apparently you missed my earlier post on this thread. I was a recipient of one of those stipends ($2500) when I was an Archive of Restoration Culture research fellow at the Smith Institute for LDS History in the late '90s. The funding for these summer fellowships--which were not exactly "apologetic ventures"--came from Karen and David Davidson and other private donors. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I have reason to believe that this year's seminar, though sponsored by the Maxwell Institute, is also privately funded. So it is not a case of FARMS "paying" apologists.

Quite. But it does seem to be a case of apologists being paid for doing apologetics - which is what this thread is apparently about.

It does not matter, of course, where the money is coming from to pay them for doing apologetics.

[_Mister Scratch]

No, no---those have definitely been substantiated. Someone in this very thread linked to a BYU website indicating that DCP is on some kind of "academic leave." As for #2, this was discussed on a separate thread, but there is a summer seminar at BYU (the current one is featuring Richard Bushman and Terryl Givens) in which participants are paid a stipend of $3,000, or something like that, for their 6-week participation. (I believe it was six weeks, though I could be wrong.)

Dr. Peterson may be on some kind of academic leave this year, but he was teaching at BYU last year. So it isn't the case that he doesn't teach there. As to the second point, apparently you missed my earlier post on this thread. I was a recipient of one of those stipends ($2500) when I was an Archive of Restoration Culture research fellow at the Smith Institute for LDS History in the late '90s. The funding for these summer fellowships--which were not exactly "apologetic ventures"--came from Karen and David Davidson and other private donors. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I have reason to believe that this year's seminar, though sponsored by the Maxwell Institute, is also privately funded. So it is not a case of FARMS "paying" apologists.

The description of this year's seminar def. made it sound like an "apologetic venture," as it seems to be focusing on figuring out ways to spin the negative/disconcerting aspects of Joseph Smith's life. Further, as Chap noted---quibbling about where the money comes from is really beside the point, in my opinion. As you'll see in my OP and in other places in this thread, DCP has claimed that he receives "nothing" from apologetics, though that's been pretty clearly debunked.

[Anonymous]

The description of this year's seminar def. made it sound like an "apologetic venture," as it seems to be focusing on figuring out ways to spin the negative/disconcerting aspects of Joseph Smith's life. Further, as Chap noted---quibbling about where the money comes from is really beside the point, in my opinion. As you'll see in my OP and in other places in this thread, DCP has claimed that he receives "nothing" from apologetics, though that's been pretty clearly debunked.

I can see why this year's seminar might sound like an "apologetic venture" since one of its aims is to persuade Latter-day Saints who have "adversely affected" by criticisms of Joseph Smith that "the facts do not compel them to discard Joseph Smith." At the same time, the seminar represents an implicit rejection of much of the current apologetic material on Joseph Smith. Instead of downplaying or dismissing critics' arguments, the seminar will review the critical evidence to see if it can shed new light on Joseph Smith's "cultural situation and mission." In other words, it is "faith seeking understanding," not a defense of the faith at all costs.

In a recent issue of the Journal of American History, Richard Bushman reflected on the decades-old tensions in the LDS academic community between the "apologists" (BYU Religion faculty) and the "historians" (Smith Institute) vis-a-vis Joseph Smith:

The apologists wonder why the historians do not spring to the defense of the faith when Joseph Smith comes under attack. The apologists want to war with the critics; the historians ask them out to lunch. . . . The apologists insist that the historians fail to understand what is at stake. The historians for their part question the apologists' polemical writing and special pleading. They think the apologists repel readers with their bellicose style and unwillingness to yield points. Though assembled on the same campus at Brigham Young University and acknowledging each other as brothers and sisters in the gospel, they live in different worlds.

- Richard Lyman Bushman, "A Response to Jan Shipps," Journal of American History 94 (September 2007): 518-19.

While Bushman wishes the "historians" would engage Joseph Smith more directly (noting their tendency "to bypass the early history" in order to "avoid strain between keeping the peace with non-Mormons and showing their colors as believers"), he certainly doesn't advocate that they become "apologists." I think the summer seminar is his attempt to find a middle ground.

But if you still want to call that "apologetics" then so be it.

[_Jason Bourne]

1. DCP teaches no classes at BYU, but is on the payroll

I saw someone claim this. Was it substantiated?

2. FARMS offers a stipend for at least one apologetic venture

I do not think it was FARMS offering this.

3. FARMS does not pay every contributor

We had one person state that they did not get paid for their contribution to FARMS. We not not know if they pay anyone for their contributions.

4. His role at FARMS is not that of a simple contributor

So what? That substantiates exactly what?

I don't know if I'm missing some other things that were brought up here that can be verified, but I would think the above is enough to un-wedge your under shorts.

You are in fact missing quite a bit. Weren't you planning on asking your father about this?

[_Jason Bourne]

Who cares if anyone gets paid?

Some of you don't seem to realize how tough a job it is being an apologist.

I don't care. But the legend in his own mind scratch is having and orgasm here over what he thinks is catching DCP in a bald face lie. Seems like he has scant to go on.

[_GoodK]

You are in fact missing quite a bit. Weren't you planning on asking your father about this?

Would that be sufficient? I was only speaking of things that have been substantiated here. I have asked him, and shared my limited knowledge both here and with Scratch personally, but I wouldn't expect anyone to take my word for it.

[_Mister Scratch]

While Bushman wishes the "historians" would engage Joseph Smith more directly (noting their tendency "to bypass the early history" in order to "avoid strain between keeping the peace with non-Mormons and showing their colors as believers"), he certainly doesn't advocate that they become "apologists." I think the summer seminar is his attempt to find a middle ground.

But if you still want to call that "apologetics" then so be it.

It seems to me that Bushman is an anomaly in the world of LDS apologetics (and yes, I'd still term what he's doing as "apologetics", albeit a far more honest and decent-minded form of it). The fact remains that participants will be paid a stipend. Thus, apologists are "gettin' paid." I'm still at a loss as to why TBMs seem to object so strenuously to this.

[_Mister Scratch]

Who cares if anyone gets paid?

Some of you don't seem to realize how tough a job it is being an apologist.

I don't care. But the legend in his own mind scratch is having and orgasm here over what he thinks is catching DCP in a bald face lie. Seems like he has scant to go on.

Actually, quite a bit of evidence, whether it be solid and fully substantiated (such as DCP being on leave), or anecdotal (GoodK's experience/contact w/ FARMS), or circumstantial (DCP's book deals) have been proffered. Why you seem to take such issue with this, Jason, is anybody's guess. Tell me: Does it seem likely to you, based on everything that's been discussed, that LDS apologists "get paid"? Y/N?

[_Jason Bourne]

Who cares if anyone gets paid?

Some of you don't seem to realize how tough a job it is being an apologist.

I don't care. But the legend in his own mind scratch is having and orgasm here over what he thinks is catching DCP in a bald face lie. Seems like he has scant to go on.

Actually, quite a bit of evidence, whether it be solid and fully substantiated (such as DCP being on leave), or anecdotal (GoodK's experience/contact w/ FARMS), or circumstantial (DCP's book deals) have been proffered. Why you seem to take such issue with this, Jason, is anybody's guess. Tell me: Does it seem likely to you, based on everything that's been discussed, that LDS apologists "get paid"? Y/N?

The only thing I see that they probably get paid for is royalties on books which really makes sense. Oh and yes the stipned thing, but that came about after DCP made his claim that you so desperately want to shatter. I see no other evidence of getting any pay here. Nothing but speculation and innuendo. But that often seems enough for you Scratch.

Why do I take issue? Because frankly your glee to take and small chance to smear DCP and others associated with him is sickening.