Pres Holland has died

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I Have Questions
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Re: Pres Holland has died

Post by I Have Questions »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Sun Dec 28, 2025 1:03 am
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sat Dec 27, 2025 4:01 pm
Literally who?
Here we go again...

He was a good man. A man of God. I righteous servant of the Lord.

Say what you will.

Regards,
MG
People have given examples of Holland’s…missteps. Incidents that suggest he was a bit arrogant, a bit thoughtless, a bit of a liar at times. And also a bit of a dupe. Do you have some examples of things that he did (not things he preached, but things he actually did) that were the acts of a good man? Shouldn’t be too hard because you obviously knew the man.

Do you recall Holland stating categorically that the Church had not provided “one red cent” of funding for anything to do with the Prop 8 campaign? Yeah, that was another lie. The Church provided hundreds of thousands of dollars in in-kind assistance and also in paying travel expenses. He was caught lying quite often.

Or are you simply making an assumption he was a good man because you sort of hero worship the Brethren?
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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sock puppet
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Re: Pres Holland has died

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Maybe per the multiple probations doctrine, he will be reborn here on earth and get it right.
"There will come a time when the rich own all the media, and it will be impossible for the public to make an informed opinion." Albert Einstein, ~1949 "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." Voltaire
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Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: Pres Holland has died

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Some comments from Reddit:
Prancing-Hamster
I worked with the Q15 for years. Holland could be very nice, but, like Monson, he had a bad temper at times. He could say some really hurtful things and in a really hurtful way when the cameras were not on.
Past_Negotiation_121
Not a talk, but my personal experience was my branch in the early 90s requiring senior leadership guidance/intervention with a member being accused of abusing their two kids. In comes Holland, calls together the whole ward council, and promptly rollocks them all for getting the police involved before he'd arrived and been able to take charge of the situation.

While I may be very much exmormon now, I was tbm at the time, but I've since wondered if my recollection was twisted by my later bitterness at the church. But no, my parents, who are as tbm as they come and both held senior stake and temple callings (for their respective gender) always reaffirmed my view every time Holland came on at GC: "hate that man" leave the room for 15 mins.

Edit: a lengthy jail time for the perpetrator suggested this was definitely not a time for 'divine guidance', but to inform the authorities as soon as there was a suspicion, as the local members did.
Green_Wishbone3828
When he stumbled during a BBC interview this was not a great look. He was asked by a BBC reporter on whether Mitt Romney would have participated in the temple penalties during the endowment. Elder Holland responded with ther are no penalties in the temple. The reporter then said yes but there were penalties at one time. Elder Holland had to reluctantly admit that there were penalties in the temple and that's now forever in the media. This was one of the moments for me that I acknowledged the church wasn't honest and wasn't true. Not the only strike for me but one of many. Now there are less media interviews and the only one that happen are staged by church public relations.
That talk that RFM takes down so brilliantly, where he recounts the story of him and his son being lost and encountering a fork in the road, then praying for and receiving revelation about which way to go, only they were inspired to go the wrong way. Holland’s justification for this failed revelation is epic in how it exposes the nonsense of it all.
His "musket fire" anti-LGBTQ devotional at BYU woke me up from several years of blissful ex-Mormon slumber. I checked in with the ex community and discovered it had blossomed like a rose since I'd left in 2004. And I learned so much damning stuff about the church, early and modern, that had nothing to do with why my shelf broke (theodicy and issues regarding race, queerness, prosperity gospel, and thinly veiled political sycophancy were what killed my faith in the church).
Web_catcher
Not an official talk, but when I was a missionary around 2002-ish he came to our mission and gave an address to all the missionaries in which he completely lost his crap. Screaming, banging the pulpit, red-faced. He assured us he had never behaved this way before, but he was forced to in our case because he had never run across such a terrible group of missionaries before. It wasn't until later that I learned 1) that he was lying and he says that to all the missionaries, and 2) it is a common tactic of abusive individuals to act out and then blame the victim.
saturdaysvoyuer
His "Safety for the Soul" talk always baffled me:

"For 179 years [the Book of Mormon] has been examined and attacked, denied and deconstructed, targeted and torn apart like perhaps no other book in modern religious history—perhaps like no other book in any religious history. And still it stands."

"[Leaving] must be done by crawling over or under or around the Book of Mormon to make that exit."

Ummmm....Yeah. The Book of Mormon has been thoroughly debunked and discredited. The only way to continue belief in it is through willful ignorance and hanging on the words of a convicted charlatan.
Appropriate_Bat8114
I’ve been waiting for him to die so I could write my version of his eulogy. Here it is:

I served as a missionary in Sweden during the early 1990s when Jeffrey R. Holland presided over the Europe North Area. Approximately three months into my service during the transition from autumn into the harsh Scandinavian winter when most of us were miserable and ill from working in the rain and snow, he held a special conference in Stockholm for missionaries from the capital and surrounding areas.

We waited with anticipation. He arrived late, entering with performative warmth: handshakes, smiles, an almost theatrical display of GA care. The lead up and messaging to this meeting suggested we were about to receive encouragement from a beloved leader, I had never heard of him before.

Then he approached the pulpit. After a deliberate silence, he posed a question: “Do you want me to tell you how well you’re doing, or shall we discuss the truth?” We chose truth.

His response: “If you were a horse, we would shoot you dead.” He punctuated this with his fist slammed against the pulpit.

What followed was not instruction, it was a sustained exercise in shame and comparison. He recounted his mission in England with a repetition of suffering: the cold, the rain, the relentless labor to the point of illness. Hmmmm, just like we were experiencing. The implicit message was unmistakable: we were weak, insufficient, unworthy of the calling we had accepted and our redemption lay in our ability to learn how to suffer, like him.

The sisters wept. The elders seethed. Our mission president was so disturbed by the encounter that he formally wrote to the First Presidency demanding an apology.

Later, I learned from a recently returned missionary who had served in England that her mission received an identical lecture. We were not special. This was a script, a manufactured performance of authority delivered across Northern Europe with apparent regularity.

Years later, I encountered him on several occasions: in Africa, at the Kirton McConkie law offices in Salt Lake City, and once at Mr. Mac. At Mr. Mac, I observed a couple approach him with visible reverence, clearly moved to meet someone they admired. He dismissed them with visible contempt, chastising them for bothering him in public. The contrast between his public persona and private demeanor was absolute.

Across five separate interactions spanning from 1991 to 2018, I witnessed the same pattern: condescension, anger, and an inability to extend basic human courtesy to those beneath his perceived station.

This weekend, as hagiographic tributes flooded media and family group chats, praising his “compassion” and “servant leadership”, I muted the notifications. The dissonance between manufactured legacy and lived experience was unbearable.

Jeffrey R. Holland was not the man being canonized in death. He was an authoritarian who wielded shame as pedagogy, who mistook cruelty for discipline, and who reserved kindness only for those whose adulation served his image. A true living asshole, now dead 🙏
Trolkarlen
Holland was a notorious homophobe.

https://www.qsaltlake.com/news/2025/12/ ... q-Mormons/

His son, Matthew Holland, now UVU President, was on the board of the antigay, Mormon-funded NOM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ ... r_Marriage
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
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bill4long
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Re: Pres Holland has died

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sock puppet wrote:
Sun Dec 28, 2025 6:52 pm
Maybe per the multiple probations doctrine, he will be reborn here on earth and get it right.
Another planet. During their bronze age.
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canpakes
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Re: Pres Holland has died

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sock puppet wrote:
Sun Dec 28, 2025 6:52 pm
Maybe per the multiple probations doctrine, he will be reborn here on earth and get it right.
By being born to a non-LDS family and then later in life shooing away all attempts by the missionaries to converse and convert.
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Limnor
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Re: Pres Holland has died

Post by Limnor »

canpakes wrote:
Sun Dec 28, 2025 7:55 pm
sock puppet wrote:
Sun Dec 28, 2025 6:52 pm
Maybe per the multiple probations doctrine, he will be reborn here on earth and get it right.
By being born to a non-LDS family and then later in life shooing away all attempts by the missionaries to converse and convert.
Extra credit if he sincerely believes he’s already living the gospel and can’t quite see what the issue is.
MG 2.0
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Re: Pres Holland has died

Post by MG 2.0 »

Here are some of his recent talks:

And Now I See (October 2025): His final conference address, focusing on the miraculous impact of the Book of Mormon.

As a Little Child (April 2025): Teaches the importance of child-like humility and reliance on the Atonement.

I Am He (October 2024): Discusses Christ's loyalty to the divine will.

Motions of a Hidden Fire (April 2024): His return to the pulpit after a health-related absence, sharing personal lessons learned from recent trials.

Some classic and highly cited talks:

Not as the World Giveth (April 2021): Finding peace in Christ amidst conflict.

Behold the Lamb of God (April 2019): Focuses on the significance of the sacrament and the Savior's sacrifice.

“Lord, I Believe” (April 2013): A powerful message on faith and dealing with doubt.

Safety for the Soul (October 2009): A testimony of the divinity of the Book of Mormon.

None Were with Him (April 2009): Reflects on the Savior's solitary journey during the Atonement.

Broken Things to Mend (April 2006): Offers hope to those who feel broken or discouraged.

An High Priest of Good Things to Come (October 1999): Provides encouragement that blessings will eventually come.

For those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

Regards,
MG
MG 2.0
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Re: Pres Holland has died

Post by MG 2.0 »

Rest in peace, Elder Holland.

This man was a witness of Christ right up to the very end.

Regards,
MG
I Have Questions
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Re: Pres Holland has died

Post by I Have Questions »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Sun Dec 28, 2025 9:17 pm
Here are some of his recent talks:

And Now I See (October 2025): His final conference address, focusing on the miraculous impact of the Book of Mormon.

As a Little Child (April 2025): Teaches the importance of child-like humility and reliance on the Atonement.

I Am He (October 2024): Discusses Christ's loyalty to the divine will.

Motions of a Hidden Fire (April 2024): His return to the pulpit after a health-related absence, sharing personal lessons learned from recent trials.

Some classic and highly cited talks:

Not as the World Giveth (April 2021): Finding peace in Christ amidst conflict.

Behold the Lamb of God (April 2019): Focuses on the significance of the sacrament and the Savior's sacrifice.

“Lord, I Believe” (April 2013): A powerful message on faith and dealing with doubt.

Safety for the Soul (October 2009): A testimony of the divinity of the Book of Mormon.

None Were with Him (April 2009): Reflects on the Savior's solitary journey during the Atonement.

Broken Things to Mend (April 2006): Offers hope to those who feel broken or discouraged.

An High Priest of Good Things to Come (October 1999): Provides encouragement that blessings will eventually come.

For those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

Regards,
MG
The nature of this post, the list, the spacing, the lack of links to any of the talks, suggests it’s highly likely to be AI generated content that’s been cut and pasted.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Whiskey
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Re: Pres Holland has died

Post by Whiskey »

I Have Questions wrote:
Sun Dec 28, 2025 9:28 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Sun Dec 28, 2025 9:17 pm
Here are some of his recent talks:

And Now I See (October 2025): His final conference address, focusing on the miraculous impact of the Book of Mormon.

As a Little Child (April 2025): Teaches the importance of child-like humility and reliance on the Atonement.

I Am He (October 2024): Discusses Christ's loyalty to the divine will.

Motions of a Hidden Fire (April 2024): His return to the pulpit after a health-related absence, sharing personal lessons learned from recent trials.

Some classic and highly cited talks:

Not as the World Giveth (April 2021): Finding peace in Christ amidst conflict.

Behold the Lamb of God (April 2019): Focuses on the significance of the sacrament and the Savior's sacrifice.

“Lord, I Believe” (April 2013): A powerful message on faith and dealing with doubt.

Safety for the Soul (October 2009): A testimony of the divinity of the Book of Mormon.

None Were with Him (April 2009): Reflects on the Savior's solitary journey during the Atonement.

Broken Things to Mend (April 2006): Offers hope to those who feel broken or discouraged.

An High Priest of Good Things to Come (October 1999): Provides encouragement that blessings will eventually come.

For those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

Regards,
MG
The nature of this post, the list, the spacing, the lack of links to any of the talks, suggests it’s highly likely to be AI generated content that’s been cut and pasted.
And your feelings are hurt where? And how? Okay, so it is AI. Fine. And then what? Those really aren't conference talks and stuff? If they were sourced from his bookshelf and not google or AI or GoogleAI then would you listen to or read the stuff from Holland? No. You wouldn't. Nobody would and nobody will. Not even MG. So what is the issue here? Just your stalking and sense of rightness and rightousness? Is that it?
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