Blacks and the priesthood: the church never actually ...

[_Zelder]

Wow, Zelder. That Brigham Young quotation is veritably dripping with the milk of human kindness.

Of course it's not dripping with kindness but it's an important part of the story.

[_Jaybear]

Apologists and regular members often misrepresent Elder McConkie's statement:
....

Regular members don't know any better.
Apologists have a poor memory when it comes to troublesome details.

That is true but for a fair and balanced view I add this:

When BY was asked by Horace Greeley if Utah would be a slave state of free state he said this

No; she will be a Free State. Slavery here would prove useless and unprofitable. I regard it generally as a curse to the masters. I myself hire many laborers and pay them fair wages; I could not afford to own them. I can do better than subject myself to an obligation to feed and clothe their families, to provide and care for them, in sickness and health. Utah is not adapted to Slave Labor.

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ser ... 131859.htm

Wow, Zelder. That Brigham Young quotation is veritably dripping with the milk of human kindness.

Speaking of selective memory, Zelder forgot about the part of the interview where Young stated that it was the official position of the LDS Church that slavery was a "divine institution."

That Zelder, is the most relevant part of the story. Not that Young was unwilling to pay his laboring a living wage.

[_angsty]

That is true but for a fair and balanced view I add this:

When BY was asked by Horace Greeley if Utah would be a slave state of free state he said this

No; she will be a Free State. Slavery here would prove useless and unprofitable. I regard it generally as a curse to the masters. I myself hire many laborers and pay them fair wages; I could not afford to own them. I can do better than subject myself to an obligation to feed and clothe their families, to provide and care for them, in sickness and health. Utah is not adapted to Slave Labor.

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ser ... 131859.htm

Wow. That Brigham Young quotation is veritably dripping with the milk of human kindness.

Well, I've learned something new today. So I officially amend my point. Apparently, sometimes BY gave the impression that he was opposed to slavery. But he didn't follow through with any discernible anti-slavery legislation, and his views more commonly looked like this:

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind....Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 290).

"In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the "servant of servants," and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 172).

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).

and everything here:

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ser ... blacks.htm

[_why me]

examples abound!

think early oppasition to slavery, early black elders, and the 2nd earliest women suffrage in the usa.

even now the church favors laws protecting gays and lesbiens in work and living.

One reason for the missourians to persecute the Mormons was because the LDS church was against slavery. They did not want an antislavery pressence in their neighborhood.

And Joseph Smith ran as an abolitionist for president.

[Guest]

One reason for the missourians to persecute the Mormons was because the LDS church was against slavery. They did not want an antislavery pressence in their neighborhood.

And Joseph Smith ran as an abolitionist for president.

Not so much against it as they were indifferent, and it seems we still are.

As outlined in "A Declaration of Belief regarding Governments and Laws in General "approved
by a general assembly of the Church 17 Aug. 1835 which stated in part, "We do not believe it right
to interfere with bond-servants ... to meddle with or influence them in the least to cause them to
be dissatisfied with their situations in this life ... such interference we believe to be unlawful and
unjust, and dangerous to the peace of every government allowing human beings to be held in
servitude." This declaration was included as part of the Doctrine and Covenants (ultimately section
134:12); which was canonized in 1835.

That is still part of D&C today.

[_DarkHelmet]

What color do faithful members believe the skin of a faithful black person will be when he/she is resurrected?

I always heard they'd be white in the resurrection. That was in the 80s. By the time I was a teenager it seems we stopped talking about black people in the church, or at least talked about them much less.

We stopped talking about black people in my ward about the same time a black family moved in.

[Guest]

... Apparently, sometimes BY gave the impression that he was opposed to slavery. But he didn't follow through with any discernible anti-slavery legislation....

As a matter of fact, Brigham Young showed some support for slavery.



edit: The above is from- http://www.jstor.org/pss/3639603.

[_Zelder]

Speaking of selective memory, Zelder forgot about the part of the interview where Young stated that it was the official position of the LDS Church that slavery was a "divine institution."

How could I forget it when he says it in the link I provided?

That Zelder, is the most relevant part of the story. Not that Young was unwilling to pay his laboring a living wage.

Another relevent part of the story from BY:

"I am as much oposed to the principle of slavery as any man in the present acceptation or usage of the term, it is abused. I am opposed to abuseing that which God has decreed, to take, a blessing, and make a curse of it. It is a great blessing to the seed of Adam to have the seed of Cain for servants, but those they serve should use them with all the heart and feeling, as they would use their own children, and their compassion should reach over them, and round about them, and treat them as kindly, and with that humane feeling necessary to be shown to mortall beings of the human species."

From the link recently provided.
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ser ... blacks.htm

[_angsty]

examples abound!

think early oppasition to slavery, early black elders, and the 2nd earliest women suffrage in the usa.

even now the church favors laws protecting gays and lesbiens in work and living.

One reason for the missourians to persecute the Mormons was because the LDS church was against slavery. They did not want an antislavery pressence in their neighborhood.

And Joseph Smith ran as an abolitionist for president.

Yeah, and as part of his platform, Joseph Smith suggested that emancipated slaves would be sent to Texas (then part of Mexico) to avoid civil discomfort among white Americans. I could almost give Joseph Smith points if it weren't for the "free them and ship them away from here" part. Other times he publicly asserted that slavery was a divine institution. Whatever he truly believed-- which is hard to say considering that he is known to have said things in print and in public forums for that weren't truthful (denying plural marriage, for example)--it doesn't really do much to compensate for the influence, beliefs and actions of those in leadership that came after him. The church under Brigham Young and subsequent leadership extending into the late seventies, and even today (SWK's advice to against interracial marriage), has been behind the times with regard to race-- and certainly not leading the way.

Even considering Brigham Young's apparent occasional flip-flopping, I can't give him points in the civil rights leadership or anti-slavery category looking at his overall record.

[_Morley]

One reason for the missourians to persecute the Mormons was because the LDS church was against slavery. They did not want an antislavery pressence in their neighborhood.

And Joseph Smith ran as an abolitionist for president.

Please read MsJack's excellent post.