DiscussMormonism.com

Shulem,

In all your researching, studying, and ponderizing did you ever get a sense for when Joseph Smith dropped the idea of a novelization of his story to adapting a ‘golden Bible’ story revealed by god and intended as a religious artifact?

- Doc

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:42 pm

Shulem,

In all your researching, studying, and ponderizing did you ever get a sense for when Joseph Smith dropped the idea of a novelization of his story to adapting a ‘golden Bible’ story revealed by god and intended as a religious artifact?

- Doc

That is a huge question and very loaded and one which I have not fully fleshed out in my own mind because questions still loom. Smith rolled with the punches and improvised as needed in working out his plan and would go wherever it took him. I believe in the beginning he was spiritual about the whole thing and his intentions were to begin a new religious movement that would transcend the Protestant and Catholic churches; although it has been said (Vogel) to be a "pious fraud."

Smith had given his work a lot of consideration and planning before he ever started dictating the story. There was a great deal of mental preparation and planning in order to keep his story straight with the Bible and maintain consistency with the timelines and chronology -- and maps. By the time he dictated his first words to Emma, he was fully bent on creating a new Bible and envisioned himself as a prophet called of God. He was totally committed to the work.

Shulem wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:34 pm

Zosimus wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:59 pm

But why? If Delmarva was the location of Smith's promised land, then why be tight-lipped about it?

The only reasons I can see for Smith keeping the map he used a secret would be because (1) he didn't want people to know where the Promised Land really was, or (2) the geography of the text was totally unrelated to the claims Smith was making.

#2 seems far more likely because (1) the geography of the Book of Mormon does not resemble any location in North or South America and (2) I can find no logical reason why Smith would want to hide that New England was the promised land.

Z,

I've pretty much answered the reason why Smith remained tight-lipped. He did not want his followers or people of interest making enquiry or an expedition to Delmarva in search of Bountiful and the ruins of Jesus's ancient temple. Smith wanted his Book of Mormon to ever remain ancient and beyond reach of physical proofs needed to show it was a genuine and historical account which he KNEW was not. There would be no expedition to prove a work of fiction and Smith saw to that by keeping his mouth shut on this one thing and one thing only.

That really sums it up for me, too. Well said.

On everything else, Smith was a blabber mouth and had answers to everything and anything. Generally speaking, Smith was a know-it-all except for when it came to discussion about where Bountiful was and or where Jesus set his foot in America.

I have three threads loaded with information that answers your question:

• Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

• Shulem Cracks Book of Mormon Geography

• Book of Mormon Geography

Great points. And great threads! : D

Everybody Wang Chung wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:11 am

Just listened to: Backyard Professor LIVE! With Benny Hinrichs - There Were Hebrew Jaredites?!

Mike Parker popped in and told BYP that he will participate in tomorrow's BYP Live with Jonathan Neville. This should be quite the show.

Did Mr. Parker participate in the show last night?

Tom wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:03 pm

Everybody Wang Chung wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:11 am

Just listened to: Backyard Professor LIVE! With Benny Hinrichs - There Were Hebrew Jaredites?!

Mike Parker popped in and told BYP that he will participate in tomorrow's BYP Live with Jonathan Neville. This should be quite the show.

Did Mr. Parker participate in the show last night?

No.

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:24 pm

Tom wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:03 pm

Did Mr. Parker participate in the show last night?

No.

It sounds like Mike Parker decided to opt out and address the controversy via nevillenevilleland instead.

Everybody Wang Chung wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:00 pm

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:24 pm

No.

It sounds like Mike Parker decided to opt out and address the controversy via nevillenevilleland instead.

Does he have posts on his blog? I heard there are now people who are saying Peter Pan has not been properly identified, and they are trying to confuse the issue. Richard Nyguen was posting, isn't that the imaginary guy in the south they were talking about?

Philo Sofee wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:19 pm

Everybody Wang Chung wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:00 pm

It sounds like Mike Parker decided to opt out and address the controversy via nevillenevilleland instead.

Does he have posts on his blog? I heard there are now people who are saying Peter Pan has not been properly identified, and they are trying to confuse the issue. Richard Nyguen was posting, isn't that the imaginary guy in the south they were talking about?

He admits it here:

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/2023 ... swers.html

- Doc

Shulem wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:34 pm

Smith wanted his Book of Mormon to ever remain ancient and beyond reach of physical proofs needed to show it was a genuine and historical account which he KNEW was not. There would be no expedition to prove a work of fiction and Smith saw to that by keeping his mouth shut on this one thing and one thing only. On everything else, Smith was a blabber mouth and had answers to everything and anything.

Except for that time when he found a leg bone and launched into an elaborate story that was intended to serve as physical proof for his followers that the Plains of the Nephites were near Illinois, not Delmarva. He wrote this to Emma:

"The whole of our journey, in the midst of so large a company of social honest and sincere men, wandering over the plains of the Nephites, recounting occasionally the history of the Book of Mormon, roving over the mounds of that once beloved people of the Lord, picking up their skulls & their bones, as a proof of its divine authenticity, and gazing upon a country the fertility, the splendour and the goodness so indescribable, all serves to pass away time unnoticed"

Remember he's walking through Illinois as he "recounts occasionally the history of the Book of Mormon". Joseph is in Illinois as he picks up skulls and bones as proof of the divine authenticity of the Book of Mormon.

Shulem wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:34 pm

I've pretty much answered the reason why Smith remained tight-lipped. He did not want his followers or people of interest making enquiry or an expedition to Delmarva in search of Bountiful and the ruins of Jesus's ancient temple.

But he had no problem making enquiry into the proofs for the divine authenticity of the Book of Mormon in Illinois, on an expedition. Maybe he was simply more confident that evidence existed in Illinois, and had no confidence that evidence existed in Delmarva?

At what point do you think he lost confidence that there would be evidence of his story in Delmarva? At what point did he decide he'd better keep that location a secret and shift attention to Illinois, Ohio and Missouri?

Shulem wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:34 pm

I have three threads loaded with information that answers your question:

What would help your case is a single comment Smith might have made about Delmarva. Or a mention of a river, a hill, a cave or any other geographical feature on the peninsula. If Joseph Smith said nothing on record about Delmarva to anyone, do we have any comments by members of Smith's family referring to the peninsula, or even early members (or detractors) of the church? Did anybody, ever, read the Book of Mormon and put out a comment about how the geography lines up with Delmarva? Other than one or two necks of land, are there any geographical features that line up with the Book of Mormon?

Zosimus wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:23 am

Except for that time when he found a leg bone and launched into an elaborate story that was intended to serve as physical proof for his followers that the Plains of the Nephites were near Illinois, not Delmarva. He wrote this to Emma:

"The whole of our journey, in the midst of so large a company of social honest and sincere men, wandering over the plains of the Nephites, recounting occasionally the history of the Book of Mormon, roving over the mounds of that once beloved people of the Lord, picking up their skulls & their bones, as a proof of its divine authenticity, and gazing upon a country the fertility, the splendour and the goodness so indescribable, all serves to pass away time unnoticed"

Remember he's walking through Illinois as he "recounts occasionally the history of the Book of Mormon". Joseph is in Illinois as he picks up skulls and bones as proof of the divine authenticity of the Book of Mormon.

Z,

All of this BS was Smith poppycock -- Joseph Smith bending over, dropping his pants, and blowing air out of his ass for everyone to breathe! It was nothing but post-historical Nephite nonsense to add to a story that supposedly ended 1,400 years previous to the story in question. Who cares that former inhabitants (Lamanites) would naturally spread out and cover all the land from New York to California? The Indians had 1,400 years to do it! That's a no brainer!

I do NOT live by every word that proceeds out of Smith ass. The man blew constant chunks out of his behind and so many lies that it would be nearly impossible except for God to count them all.

Would you please, just wake up?