Pres Holland has died

[Gadianton]

Any person in power can have AI write a talk for them to read to a congregation, or have one written for them by their employees. But even if Holland produced his own talks, the Book of Mormon warns of charismatic leaders speaking smooth things unto the people. MG's evidence doesn't rise beyond what can be interpreted as deceptive tactics by designing, evil leaders, per the Book of Mormon.

If MG wishes to provide another perspective, he will need to find testimonials by those who have known him behind the scenes. Perhaps there are positive Holland stories where the man has blessed the lives of many? I have no idea. Everybody Wang Chung's evidence is quite damning. I've had uber tbm family members who have known several apostles in life outside General Conference, and with the exception of one, the reports generally aren't good. I haven't heard anything about Holland though.

[Whiskey]

Any person in power can have AI write a talk for them to read to a congregation, or have one written for them by their employees. But even if Holland produced his own talks, the Book of Mormon warns of charismatic leaders speaking smooth things unto the people. MG's evidence doesn't rise beyond what can be interpreted as deceptive tactics by designing, evil leaders, per the Book of Mormon.

If MG wishes to provide another perspective, he will need to find testimonials by those who have known him behind the scenes. Perhaps there are positive Holland stories where the man has blessed the lives of many? I have no idea. Everybody Wang Chung's evidence is quite damning. I've had uber tbm family members who have known several apostles in life outside General Conference, and with the exception of one, the reports generally aren't good. I haven't heard anything about Holland though.

Suspicion is not evidence. Secondhand anecdotes about unnamed apostles, filtered through family stories, are not indictments. They are impressions stacked on presuppositions. What you are doing is lazy and dishonest. You are smuggling a trick into the conversation where, absent affirmative proof of goodness, public figures are treated as deceptive by default. That standard would damn every leader in every institution, religious or secular. That is not skepticism. It is prejudice dressed up as caution, and it poisons every discussion you touch.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to question Holland. Dude was a goofy representative and admnstrator for the church. But your burden, built on imagination and unverifiable anecdotes that may never have happened, is not real. It is as unreasonable as requiring validation of your imagined anecdotes.

[Gadianton]

But your burden, built on imagination and unverifiable anecdotes that may never have happened, is not real. It is as unreasonable as requiring validation of your imagined anecdotes.

Not really, all I'm asking is for MG (or anybody else who cares) to find character attestations like Everybody Wang Chung did, except positive endorsement rather than negative. Surely on Facebook or some Mormon site somewhere, there are folks relaying their stories about how Holland blessed their lives or the lives of others. Then again, maybe there aren't.

[canpakes]

Suspicion is not evidence. Secondhand anecdotes about unnamed apostles, filtered through family stories, are not indictments. They are impressions stacked on presuppositions. What you are doing is lazy and dishonest. You are smuggling a trick into the conversation where, absent affirmative proof of goodness, public figures are treated as deceptive by default. That standard would damn every leader in every institution, religious or secular. That is not skepticism. It is prejudice dressed up as caution, and it poisons every discussion you touch.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to question Holland. Dude was a goofy representative and admnstrator for the church. But your burden, built on imagination and unverifiable anecdotes that may never have happened, is not real. It is as unreasonable as requiring validation of your imagined anecdotes.

A response that deserves the following reply:

Mostly, when you are completely unable to deal with the content of a post, you make up stupid crap about the poster. It is normal for weak people with weak arguments and few skills. I understand.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Good Lord! They are all on their phones and look bored out of their minds. I haven’t seen this many slumped shoulders and glazed eyes since the premiere of Six Days in August. What a wonderful funeral.....




Elder Holland always showed true humility. Nothing says blessed are the poor quite like the view from a private Gulfstream. It’s the Rolls Royce of private jets, and perfect for when you really don't want to serve the poor, but want to fly above them without having to breathe the same air.

[MG 2.0]

But your burden, built on imagination and unverifiable anecdotes that may never have happened, is not real. It is as unreasonable as requiring validation of your imagined anecdotes.

Not really, all I'm asking is for MG (or anybody else who cares) to find character attestations like Everybody Wang Chung did, except positive endorsement rather than negative. Surely on Facebook or some Mormon site somewhere, there are folks relaying their stories about how Holland blessed their lives or the lives of others. Then again, maybe there aren't.

Do his three children count? I listened to the funeral today. The kids loved their dad and gave their own witness of his goodness and loving kindness over many years. It seems as though they would know him as well as anyone.

Regards,
MG

[bill4long]

Elder Holland always showed true humility. Nothing says blessed are the poor quite like the view from a private Gulfstream. It’s the Rolls Royce of private jets, and perfect for when you really don't want to serve the poor, but want to fly above them without having to breathe the same air.

Only da bestest for Jesus's buds.

I hear a Gulfstream G800 is what the Mormon Jesus flies around on when secretly visiting Earth.

[Gadianton]

Do his three children count?

Do three hairs make a beard? If we apply Sorites Paradox then nobody will ever truly be able to say how many witnesses it takes to make Holland a good man.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Literally who?

Here we go again...

He was a good man. A man of God. I righteous servant of the Lord.

Say what you will.

Regards,
MG

I find it psychologically fascinating that the post that triggered MG was the one who didn’t know who the fat man was. It’s as if the truly horrific thing MG fears the most is being inconsequential and unknown.

I suppose he could get off his lazy ass and actually serve a mission… that might help.

[bill4long]

Do his three children count? I listened to the funeral today. The kids loved their dad and gave their own witness of his goodness and loving kindness over many years. It seems as though they would know him as well as anyone.

Unless you're a complete azz wipe, the kids are gonna love their dad. My kids love me. That's how I know that's true.

By many accounts Jeff was likeable, gregarious, back-slapping guy. There's a lot of those in the world. But he was a demonstrable BS artist and deliberate deceiver. Kinda like your local neighborhood car salesman. Whatever he was, he was not an apostle as New Testament apostles claimed to be. (I'm not a New Testament believer.)

Jeff enjoyed all the perks of Mormon "stardom." How many times did he take off his expensive suit, go downtown and minister to the poor, needy, drug addicts, prostitutes, and mentally ill? When did he do the "miraculous works of an apostle"? (2 Corinithans 12:12)

Never. And you know it.

This song goes out to a guy who pretended to be an "apostle of Jesus Christ" and had trouble telling the truth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuFScoO4tb0