Problematic John Dehlin, a short list

[Lem]

Thank you for your posts, Chelovek and NoManIsMyBishop.

Please understand that the poster who has been responding to you speaks only for himself. There are many here who understand your point that misogyny can damage both men and women, and those who attempt to minimize your pain by implying that it is nothing compared to 'serial killers, rapists, and molesters' are making hugely inappropriate statements. Also, just ignore the comment that this not the place to make your comments. There is a 200 page thread on another case involving Dehhlin that has gone on for almost a month, started by the very poster who seems to be implying that your comments are not appropriate here. That's beyond facetious, in my opinion. You are correct to ignore them.

Anyway, welcome, and thank you for participating!

[pistolero]

John Dehlin has a doctorate's in psychology and psychology therapy. Talking to him privately is actually kind of ridiculous.

Hi Chelovek, thanks for taking the time to provide some much needed context and additional information, this doesn't sound like a great situation for you both. These boards are full of people with a spectrum of opinions, some are very pro-JD, some the opposite and some are just whiling away the hours posting irrelevance while waiting to come out of lockdown. That's what happens when things are in the public domain, rightly or wrongly.

It is often difficult to come to any reliable conclusion with all the hearsay, innuendo, etc... that gets posted here, so it's good to hear it from the horse's mouth so to speak. Up until your post, there seemed to be a preponderance of opinion that it was his reaction that was the most extraordinary aspect of this episode, but what I'm hearing from you both is that the actual liking/re-linking of the images was the most shocking aspect for you both? In your mind is there any possibility to explain away his behaviour?

Just to question something I quoted above. I'm interested why you think it would have been ridiculous to talk privately to JD? If it were possible, would this have been your preference?

Not sure if I agree with the Joseph Smith/BY comparison, but what would you want to have happen with JD now?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

So a woman posts sexy pics of herself on Facebook and is offended that a man likes them?

Do I have that right?

No....he barrage liked mostly her sexy pics on both Instagram and Facebook from over a years worth of post. He cherry picked mostly sexy pics that he had previously already liked....he unliked them then, then liked them again. This happened ALL AT ONCE. He did this THREE TIMES OVER THREE DAYS. If it was just her posting pics and him liking them as they are posted that would be normal. She woke up to a BARRAGE of John Dehlin's "likes" of these pics. That's not normal. If you don't agree.... Do it! I dare you to go on a married woman's page, someone who you are friends with both her and her husband, go back over a year and only like her more sexy pics. It's got to be at least 30 at once. Do it on both her Facebook & Instagram. Be sure on Facebook to only like the ones her husband is not tagged in. Let that sit a day...then do it again....then let it sit and do it a third time! Yeah....you would be creepy for sure! This is exactly what John Dehlin did. I am her husband...I saw it first hand. It caught us both totally off guard! He and Margi had been online friends of ours for over 4yrs. I was a bishop and we left the church while I was in the Stake presidency and we have a very unique story. John wanted to interview us and we planned to do so but had to wait until we felt the time was right with our family. John's behavior is completely unjustified except in the case of him trying to flirt or get attention. He knows us. He knows we are monogomus and he should have known this was NOT OK. I'm still in shock he did this and can't understand why.

I'm so sorry John Dehlin did that to you guys. I believe you and your wife. Don't let Kishkumen give you the impression his is the majority opinion here- this place gets a wide range of opinions on various matters.

Also, wtf Kish. You're the biggest damned gadfly ever. Acting like you ain't thrilled to chatter more about salacious topics is such BS. *snaps finger and claps in his direction *

- Doc

[Kishkumen]

Actually we chose to just ignore it when it happened. For the first time in four years he completely stopped liking anything she posted and this went on for two months. With the exception of going back unliking then re-liking a post she had made in quoting Samantha from zelf on a shelf "nothing says innocence like burning down the printing press that exposes you". Which seemed extremely weird and almost baiting. There was a lot going on in our lives over those two months including my wife recovering from a severe concussion and opening a brick and mortar store for her new business. Of course just trying to forget something doesn't always work out that way. Especially when the perpetrator begins virtue signaling and finally when he asked on his own page for members to give practical examples of ex-Mormon mens bad behavior with ex-Mormon women she called him out. You may or may not agree with this and that doesn't really matter. It does not excuse his bad behavior nor his even worse behavior after he was exposed. Many women who stood up, asked any kind of question or even liked anything she said were deleted or blocked from his page. John Dehlin has a doctorate's in psychology and psychology therapy. Talking to him privately is actually kind of ridiculous. Bottom line.... He misbehaved and has been trying to recover ever since. The seven-page doc he sent was at 3:30 in the morning. In it he shamed us for bringing this to his "workplace" and I say shame on him for bringing it into our home. I'll say it again John Dehlin is no different than Brigham Young or Joseph Smith and only gain power with people that refuse to think he does not make mistakes and in this case a big mistake.

OK. You chose to ignore it at the time, but then chose to make it public on his Facebook page. I can see why his behavior struck you all as odd, but I might have tried to discuss the matter with him before making a public thing about it. Just my opinion. I don't think anyone disagrees with the judgment that he overreacted to the criticism, which in itself may be counted as a success. We all agree that he overreacted to criticism. We don't all necessarily agree with the choice to make the criticism public without discussing the matter with him privately first. I obviously don't agree with you that his behavior at any point in this mess makes him "just like Brigham Young or Joseph Smith." There are so many obvious differences that it is really mostly strange to read that, except for the fact that this is what most of us do for some years after our departure from the LDS Church. We relate a lot of things to that experience because we are still processing it.

I wish you both well, even though we will not agree on every point here. It sounds like you guys have a lot of great things going on in your lives and much to be proud of.

[Kishkumen]

A predator is always in the making and in this case it was online. You say they actually have to kill rape or molest a child and I say they become predators when they start behaving as John Dehlin did online. I said flippantly because of exactly what you just said in that you don't know us. This is all I'm going to say on the matter as it's already taken way too much time out of our lives. You have access to the seven-page docs... And I'm assuming you have access to the post on Mormon stories podcast where she called him out. You have plenty of information to create your own deductions of the situation as does anyone else who is reading this. Please do. You've now heard this side of the story.

Yes, you are right. I am not going to agree with you that "a predator is always in the making." Sorry. I don't see John as a predator. I don't even know what actually happened. You have told me what you experienced, and that is cool. Still, just because a couple of people show up here and claim that John did X does not make me rush to agree with them. No disrespect intended, but I don't know you. I have no idea who you are or what actually happened. I will wish you the very best in what looks like a very promising future and a happy marriage.

[Kishkumen]

Don't let Kishkumen give you the impression his is the majority opinion here- this place gets a wide range of opinions on various matters.

Also, wtf Kish. You're the biggest stupid gadfly ever. Acting like you ain't thrilled to chatter more about salacious topics is such B.S.. *snaps finger and claps in his direction *

- Doc

Um, OK? Maybe you should stop projecting, DoCCam. Honestly, just because people share your biases against Mormonism and John Dehlin is no reason to accept whatever they claim at the drop of a hat. I am not lying when I say that I wish we had never had to deal with Rosebud or this. All we see is people rushing around venting their feelings about what they claim happened to them. Nothing obliges me to accept their interpretation of the alleged events at face value. It doesn't help when they express their seething hatred of the Church and that they equate John Dehlin "the predator" with that "evil" institution.

All I will say in support of them is that I am sorry they had an upsetting experience, and I do think that John Dehlin played a big role in that upsetting experience. I agree that he handled the whole thing poorly and very likely carelessly provoked the whole thing. But, I am not going to sit here without any actual facts and just say, "I believe you when you offer your own account; it must be exactly as you say."

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Kish,

I don't know in what kind of alternate universe you occupy where it's THEIR problem where they need to address John Dehlin's creepy-ass behavior privately, especially when he's acting in a public manner on HER page AND he then asks, like the supreme idiot he is, on HIS Facebook page, what do men do that women find gross.

Good Lord.

- Doc

[pistolero]

like the supreme idiot he is

We probably all agree on this?

Why is she being picked apart over him?!!!!

I don't know in what kind of alternate universe you occupy where it's THEIR problem where they need to address John Dehlin's creepy-ass behavior privately,

Unfortunately, if she doesn't want to be picked apart publicly over this, the only thing to do would be to deal privately with it. Not saying it's right, it's just what happens when you play things out online, it's a harsh online world out there. If things didn't go well in private and you really wanted to teach JD a lesson and you weren't concerned about the collateral damage to your private life, then upping the ante and going after him publicly is certainly a way forward. If I really wanted to make an issue of it and don't mind the flak.

[Kishkumen]

Kish,

I don't know in what kind of alternate universe you occupy where it's THEIR problem where they need to address John Dehlin's creepy-ass behavior privately, especially when he's acting in a public manner on HER page AND he then asks, like the supreme idiot he is, on HIS Facebook page, what do men do that women find gross.

Good Lord.

- Doc

Hey, DocCam:

I am being practical here, to the best of my ability. If you don't want some person to flip out on you, don't make a public accusation against them. OK? Sounds fairly simple to me. You got a problem with somebody? Then take it to them privately and try to work it out with them privately. Unless, of course, you have absolutely no interest in working it out and just want to cause problems. And, hey, if that is what you want--to make him very uncomfortable as revenge for him making you uncomfortable--then by all means go for it. Accuse him in front of other people without warning. But then don't try to say he is Mr. Bad Man for getting upset about it. Why wouldn't any normal person get upset by being blindsided in that way?

Of course, my preferred position on this is that we didn't hear about any of it because it is really none of our business. Just as his relationship with Rosebud was none of our business. I don't tithe to this guy. I listen to some of his interviews. This is not going to make me not listen to his podcast.

Is he kind of a dumbass? Does he do dumb things and sometimes cross over lines of propriety? Yes. Indeed. That bothers me. But this nonsense about him being "just like" Brigham and Joseph, and "a predator in a position of power" is really counterproductive for the people who are making the claims. It adds nothing to their credibility. If anything, it diminishes their credibility.

[Kishkumen]

Unfortunately, if she doesn't want to be picked apart publicly over this, the only thing to do would be to deal privately with it. Not saying it's right, it's just what happens when you play things out online, it's a harsh online world out there. If things didn't go well in private and you really wanted to teach John Dehlin a lesson and you weren't concerned about the collateral damage to your private life, then upping the ante and going after him publicly is certainly a way forward. If I really wanted to make an issue of it and don't mind the flak.

I honestly feel sympathetic with their raw feelings. It looks like they are processing a lot in their transition out of Mormonism. I am glad I don't know who they are and I wish them all the best. Still, I don't have to agree with them about their experience with John Dehlin and how they handled it, and I don't think my normal, decent human being card needs to be revoked because of that.