Look, Doc, I suggested to KevinSim that he read the Bible/New Testament like a child, not already knowing what the text is saying, but allowing God to reveal himself. This is something he can do within the confines of Mormonism.
I suppose Moksha did not view that as a “concrete alternative.”
I’m not minimizing anyone’s LDS experience, and yes, Mormonism places high demand on her members. Not everyone who has left Mormonism views their experience as traumatic, or as a terribly bad experience.
I’ve spent a small amount of time with people from much higher demand groups, and I’ve never met a former LDS who needed recovery from places such as Wellspring Retreat or Meadowhaven. https://www.meadowhaven.org/
You know how many Mormons and ex-Mormons who need therapy with regard to that religion? I mean, I don’t, but it appears to be significant. Heck, John Dehlin has thrived because of the impact of Mormonism on the psyches of Mo’s and ex-Mo’s. And I’d guess that more than a few of us that didn’t utilize therapy ended up mucking around in unhealthy lifestyles.
How many high demand religions require their youth go off for two years to peddle their nonsense? The crap some of us went through, hour by hour, day by day, in some of the most austere environments imaginable, leaves negative lifelong impacts. And that’s just one small aspect of the Mormon life. The total emotional, intellectual, and psychological control this “church” has and had over its members is truly cult-like. In other words, Mormonism ranks right up near the top for the damage it does to the human mind and soul.
- Doc
Believe me, Doc, I know this very well. John Dehlin wasn’t doing this when some of the old timers on the discussion board were going through their faith crisis. It was back then that I began to feel compassion for those the church kicked to the curb. Actually, the compassion and desire to help alleviate the distress of others began with the LDS missionaries that I, in a sense, went on mission with (as much as possible that a non-member can do). I had LDS missionaries asking me to minister to other missionaries, when church members were not.
You can say things on the discussion board that I can’t as a never member, without getting dinged.
"Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy” Jude 1:24
“the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.” 1 John 1:7 ESV
OK. Then what are, say, several good things worth preserving that do require membership?
Bumping for Kevin (as requested)
My marriage to my wife (which is very much worth preserving forever) requires membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. She has told me quite explicitly that she would divorce me if I ever left that church, and I fully believe she would.
Similarly, the sealing between us and my four children (that is also worth preserving forever) requires membership in that church. Those are the first things that come to mind.
My marriage to my wife (which is very much worth preserving forever) requires membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. She has told me quite explicitly that she would divorce me if I ever left that church, and I fully believe she would.
Similarly, the sealing between us and my four children (that is also worth preserving forever) requires membership in that church. Those are the first things that come to mind.
What exactly is the alternative to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? If, for some reason, I were to conclude that I should leave the LDS Church, what should I let take its place?
Sunday hikes in the mountains? Fishing? Meditating at a Buddhist retreat?
"He disturbs the laws of his country, he forces himself upon women, and he puts men to death without trial.” ~Otanes on the monarch, Herodotus Histories 3.80.
My marriage to my wife (which is very much worth preserving forever) requires membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. She has told me quite explicitly that she would divorce me if I ever left that church, and I fully believe she would.
Similarly, the sealing between us and my four children (that is also worth preserving forever) requires membership in that church. Those are the first things that come to mind.
Don't blow up your family over Mormonism. Just stick with it, if those really are the stakes.
"He disturbs the laws of his country, he forces himself upon women, and he puts men to death without trial.” ~Otanes on the monarch, Herodotus Histories 3.80.
My marriage to my wife (which is very much worth preserving forever) requires membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. She has told me quite explicitly that she would divorce me if I ever left that church, and I fully believe she would.
Similarly, the sealing between us and my four children (that is also worth preserving forever) requires membership in that church. Those are the first things that come to mind.
If you find yourself in a cave watching shadows on the wall, try to seek the beauty in shadows. Remember, the Celestial shadows may come with rainbow auras!
OK. Then what are, say, several good things worth preserving that do require membership?
Bumping for Kevin (as requested)
In retrospect, the quality of my life, and the quality of the lives of millions of Latter-day Saints around the world, are worth preserving forever, and that requires membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In fact, preserving forever the quality of the lives of all seven billion people on Earth requires eventual membership in that church. There's several good things for you.
My marriage to my wife (which is very much worth preserving forever) requires membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. She has told me quite explicitly that she would divorce me if I ever left that church, and I fully believe she would.
Similarly, the sealing between us and my four children (that is also worth preserving forever) requires membership in that church. Those are the first things that come to mind.
Don't blow up your family over Mormonism. Just stick with it, if those really are the stakes.
I agree with Kish. I have a friend/sort of coworker who is a bishop, and I think he is slowly and gently leading his wife through the issues with the church. I admire how he is going about this. He has told me, "I think Joseph Smith got some things wrong." We haven't discussed what things he thinks Joseph Smith got wrong. Really, I don't even think we need to discuss those things. It is kind of like we know what each other is thinking without speaking words.
If you do find yourself in that situation, slowly and gently I think is a good approach.
"Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy” Jude 1:24
“the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.” 1 John 1:7 ESV
My marriage to my wife (which is very much worth preserving forever) requires membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. She has told me quite explicitly that she would divorce me if I ever left that church, and I fully believe she would.
Similarly, the sealing between us and my four children (that is also worth preserving forever) requires membership in that church. Those are the first things that come to mind.
This argument doesn't make sense to me. I understand not wanting to divorce in this life but if you were leaving the church due to disbelief, then the "sealing" and "membership" and "marriage" have no forever component--only the Mormon god says families will be separated in the hereafter if they are not all members of one religion.
It sounds like you are saying you don't really believe the Mormon version but you stay in that religion to not lose family relationships in this life, and are attempting to justify that with the "forever" argument.
One consideration that mattered for me was what i was doing to future generations if i stayed in only for reasons of not rocking the relationship boat. Raising children in the LDS church risks doing considerable harm to them.
