Problematic John Dehlin, a short list

[Kishkumen]

Those are good observations, Dwight.

[Lem]

Alright...well, carry on. Not sure what you think obsessed means. As I see it, no one's obsessed with him. Some are concerned with how he's handled some things, as a leader of a community of sorts.

An over 200 page thread about John and Rosebud, another thread by Meadowchick here that is over 40 pages. Look I get that John is subject to scrutiny and such as a public figure. But some of this seems a bit excessive.

Well, you have to realize it is less than half as obsessive as you think. And by that I mean literally less than half as obsessive. Pages on this newest board rendition seem to be limited to 10 posts whereas the old board would allow 21. That 41 page thread would only be on page 19 if it had taken place last year.

[jpatterson]

I don’t really see a lot of John Dehlin defenders as much as people who think he hasn’t committed any capital offenses.

I agree that John has not committed any offenses worthy of capital punishment.

[Meadowchik]

You said you found information which was publicly viewable in two places. One, in the MS group, I already knew. The other place you claimed it was--her Facebook--is not confirmed. I never saw it there.

If that was public you could have linked to it.

Or you could have just looked it up for yourself. I still don't see why it was my responsibility to dig through all that again. You have more access than I do. You could certainly have applied a little elbow grease and scrolled through that date range yourself. I told you which two pages everything came from, and others had also confirmed that they found it.

It's not like I was combing through NoManIsMyBishop's Facebook. I opened her page, and I opened the Mormon Stories' page. I was somewhat surprised to find that the allegations were still available on the Mormon Stories thread, albeit mostly in the form of screenshots.

My access to NoManIsMyBishop's posts and the replies to it on her own page came either exclusively or almost exclusively via the screenshots on the Mormon Stories page, which opened onto her Facebook page when I clicked on them. A few of the posts might have been only on one page or the other, but like I said, I couldn't swear to that. Either way, I'm not friended to her, so what I could access is (or was) definitely publicly viewable. I would have no means of viewing that stuff if it weren't.

I just don't see why you expected me to do all that digging for you or what the point of that would be. I really don't WANT to go back and dig through her personal information. I haven't returned to either page since.

Like I said, I did look, but didn't see it. I think you were mistaken about where you got your information. In all fairness I asked you to verify and you refused. So it's reasonable for me to conclude that you are mistaken about where you saw it. Easy peasy.

[Meadowchik]

Interesting. I don’t think that is true.

If a few people rise to such status through a confluence of obvious favourable conditions, it stands to reason that there are many more who have similar personalities. They just weren't in the right place at the right time, or didn't stand out as much as another guy, or didn't get a bunch of money from their dad, etc...

I don’t think that John Dehlin is in the early stages of becoming a cult leader.

I don't think he is, either. I do think he exhibits unhealthy patterns of behaviour which do in turn negatively impact others because of his elevated status.

[Meadowchik]

It was more the latter, but it's not an easy thing to explain. Being indoctrinated from birth to think literally no other way of living is worthwhile is hard to get past.

Even if a person wasn't all-in they can still have to deal with a ton of garbage? I was more the former, but I think I get that.

[Meadowchik]

I don't know. This obsession with Dehlin seems over the top. The dude is not perfect. Like all of us. But he offers something apparently people want and appreciate. I do. I listen to some of his podcasts still when it is one that interests me. And I donate $$ to Open Stories Foundation once in a while, just like I do to RFM. I sort of feel like you all ought to cut the man some slack.

What does "cut the man some slack" mean to you? Does it mean ignore unhealthy behaviour towards others?

I think it's important to learn how to reject some behaviours about people even if we accept other behaviours.

[Moksha]

You're using the same stupid logic my family uses when I try to bring up issues with the church. "Why are you so obsessed?" "Why don't you just move on?"

Jason is just trying to make sense of all this John Dehlin hoopla.

I like to make up my own reasons, such as needing to show due diligence as a Kirton McConkie contractor. Jason wants to go the more traditional route of asking questions to get answers.

[Jason Bourne]

I don't know. This obsession with Dehlin seems over the top. The dude is not perfect. Like all of us. But he offers something apparently people want and appreciate. I do. I listen to some of his podcasts still when it is one that interests me. And I donate $$ to Open Stories Foundation once in a while, just like I do to RFM. I sort of feel like you all ought to cut the man some slack.

What does "cut the man some slack" mean to you? Does it mean ignore unhealthy behaviour towards others?

I think it's important to learn how to reject some behaviours about people even if we accept other behaviours.

Never mind. I regret ever making the comment.

[jpatterson]

You're using the same stupid logic my family uses when I try to bring up issues with the church. "Why are you so obsessed?" "Why don't you just move on?"

Jason is just trying to make sense of all this John Dehlin hoopla.

I like to make up my own reasons, such as needing to show due diligence as a Kirton McConkie contractor. Jason wants to go the more traditional route of asking questions to get answers.

I think you're attempting to make a funny here, but I'm not following you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you actually want to engage meaningfully, I'm all ears.