Is Mopologetics Equivalent to a Church Calling?

[Kishkumen]

I think it is more frustration. I have an uncle whose last 15 years were spent, as a service missionary, taking care of an LDS for-profit facility and campground. He died in the service of an LDS church that, in my opinion, took advantage of his willingness to serve god, by using his and his wife's free labor to boost their profits. He died with no money and left nothing for his family, because he gave all to the LDS church.

After my father retired from working for the LDS church and my mother passed away, he and his wife went on several missions where not only did he do exactly the same job from which he had just retired, but his wife also provided full time labor as his staff, AND he paid the LDS church around 3k a month for the privilege. This went on for many years.

That is truly awful. I hate how people place their church before their own family. In the LDS Church, which professes to be so centered on the family, you would think this would not be the big problem that it is. Too often, the LDS Church comes first and family comes a distant second. We felt this keenly when we became parents. We felt we were expected to put the Church before our kids. We refused to do so, and it is a key reason why we quit attending.

[huckelberry]

I wouldn’t call it “hurtful,” I’d say he’s just smart enough to see through the ruse.

Indeed, but why hold it against him if you wish your family had been able to do exactly what he’s doing?

With all due respect, Dr. Shades— you’re saying that Dr. Peterson actually thinks that the brethren’s directive for older LDS to serve missions is “a ruse”? Like, he thinks the Brethren are full of crap and has no issue with flippantly dismissing their orders?

I can see why you might say that “hurtful” isn’t necessary the best way to describe this behavior, but I’m curious how *you* would characterize it? Especially given what is expected of the average LDS Church member?

Doctor Scratch, I am responding as a question not an argument. I am puzzled, do not understand, why you use the characterization, "directive for older LDS, dismissing their orders"

The details Marcus supplied about the experience of relatives does give me a clue that I might be ignorant of the situation. I have been unaware of pressure for elder missions or the extra giving asked. I can imagine that church suggestions could feel more like instructions or obligations. Manipulation might work that way.

I can imagine that this is a growing thing. I would not been aware of everything going on money wise in the church fifty years ago but I never heard about relatives involved in elder mission and have been unaware of any significant pressure in that direction.

[Doctor Scratch]

Hi, Huckelberry.

I’d recommend checking out this Church News article, which summarizes Elder Rasband’s recent talk. Some tidbits:

The gathering of Israel is the most important thing happening on earth today. “It follows that to gather Israel we need missionaries. Many more than are serving.” The Lord and the Church need more senior couples to serve as missionaries.

As an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, I ask you to serve as a missionary in the gathering of Israel and perhaps even serve again.

That’s pretty direct, no? And it’s striking to me that DCP characterizes this as an “invitation.” That seems to be putting it mildly. Imagine if 18-year-old DCP had dismissed the directive to serve a mission as an “invitation” and has insisted that he should be able to go joyriding and publishing a comic book chastising anti-Mormons instead.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Hi, Huckelberry.

I’d recommend checking out this Church News article, which summarizes Elder Rasband’s recent talk. Some tidbits:

The gathering of Israel is the most important thing happening on earth today. “It follows that to gather Israel we need missionaries. Many more than are serving.” The Lord and the Church need more senior couples to serve as missionaries.

As an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, I ask you to serve as a missionary in the gathering of Israel and perhaps even serve again.

That’s pretty direct, no? And it’s striking to me that DCP characterizes this as an “invitation.” That seems to be putting it mildly. Imagine if 18-year-old DCP had dismissed the directive to serve a mission as an “invitation” and has insisted that he should be able to go joyriding and publishing a comic book chastising anti-Mormons instead.

DCP's selfishness, greed and disregard for Church directives aside, DCP didn't have a successful mission and had zero baptisms. The only thing DCP has to show for his mission is his bizarre accent he developed from learning perfect German. I would love to see DCP serve another mission, if for no other reason than to see what other bizarre accent he would come home with.

I wonder if DCP has severe insecurities about going back to the mission field where he had zero success for two years of hard labor? No doubt, DCP's mission had to be an emotionally crushing and traumatic experience for his massive ego.

[malkie]

I think it's worth mentioning that Dr P's experience was probably quite common. Many 20thC missions in Britain were not productive if measured by baptism numbers, and I think the same is likely true for missionaries in Europe.

It was personally disappointing but far from disgraceful to baptize 2 or 1 or 0 converts.

[Dr. Shades]

Sigh. You are again missing the point, and based on your last three or four responses to me, you just want to quibble about stuff for some reason unrelated to the thread topics.

Your point is that it's sad how the church exploited the goodwill of your relatives in order to save itself a few dollars. I think your point is also how it's sad that your uncle never caught on that that's what was really happening to him, sort of like Boxer in Orwell's Animal Farm.

Yet you mentioned "Peterson," thus opening him up for discussion.

With all due respect, Dr. Shades— you’re saying that Dr. Peterson actually thinks that the brethren’s directive for older LDS to serve missions is “a ruse”?

I don't think he would put it that way. But my guess is that he's caught on to the church's racket of calling retired professionals to serve missions doing X, and charging them for the privilege, whereas it would otherwise would have to pay professionals to do X. (See Marcus's previous posts in this thread for real-world--and heartbreaking--examples.)

DCP may indeed be many things, but "dumb" definitely isn't one of them. On this I believe we can all agree.

Like, he thinks the Brethren are full of crap and has no issue with flippantly dismissing their orders?

Elder Rasband used the word "we ask," not "we command." So Peterson can hang his hat on that phrasing without suffering a crisis of conscience. MORE ON THIS BELOW. . .

I can see why you might say that “hurtful” isn’t necessary the best way to describe this behavior, but I’m curious how *you* would characterize it?

I'd characterize it as "smart." Nothing more, nothing less.

Especially given what is expected of the average LDS Church member?

Alas, here is where you may be making a key mistake (likewise, with all due respect): "The average LDS church member" is a Chapel Mormon. As an Internet Mormon, DCP most assuredly isn't an "average LDS Church member." Remember, bullet point #11 reads, "Chapel Mormons tend to believe that a prophet's words apply to everyone he's addressing. Internet Mormons believe that a prophet's words may not apply to at least some of the people he's addressing."

Therefore, DCP's interpretation of that apostle's words is entirely unsurprising--nay, expected!--within the restoration offshoot known as "Internet Mormonism."

[Kishkumen]

I recall Nibley saying something to the effect that he had made a deal with God to do his Mormon scholarship instead of any leadership callings. I admired him for that. I am with Shades on this being a smart move on Dr P’s part.

[huckelberry]

I recall Nibley saying something to the effect that he had made a deal with God to do his Mormon scholarship instead of any leadership callings. I admired him for that. I am with Shades on this being a smart move on Dr P’s part.

I agree with Shades here as well about Peterson. I do think that Chapel Mormons would include a lot of people who would make the same distinction about choice however.

[huckelberry]

I'm sure this is a church-wide thing, but senior missions are really being pushed in my stake. It's relentless, and returned senior missionaries are constantly being paraded in front of us as the returned heroes. Those who serve multiple missions are the elite of the elite.

Lately I have noticed a pattern in the insistent message that by missing the important events in your childrens' and grandchildrens' lives you are actually making their lives better and safer. One of the senior couples who spoke in stake conference today stressed this element of serving senior missions (they have served twice so far but really look up to their friends who have served six times). The message was that BECAUSE they were on their mission none of their family left the church or got divorced. BECAUSE they were on their mission, two of their grandchildren were just missed by a car that certainly would have hit and killed them without the added blessing of grandparents on a mission. BECAUSE of their mission none of their children have fallen into financial ruin. I mean, if you think about it, who can afford NOT to serve a senior mission? If you choose the selfish route, anything bad that happens to your family will be your fault because you failed to protect them by serving a mission.

It is starting to take on a chain-letter kind of voodoo.

“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

https://newordermormon.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3445

This post is from NOM the individual has posted here a few times, hope it is not a improper to copy it here.

I was surprised at this. When active in the church I never heard of this business. It was certainly not pushed. I am wondering if the whole program is relatively new. Anybody know when this all started or grew to become a thing?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I think Senior missions are a much better use of assets than the current Junior missionary program. It gives Seniors something to do, a place to be, friends and social bonds to make, and most likely a wiser approach to volunteerism. Pay-to-play, though. Evil.

- Doc