African Book of Mormon translations starting to remove “skin of blackness” and other racist phraseology

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Doctor Steuss
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Re: African Book of Mormon translations starting to remove “skin of blackness” and other racist phraseology

Post by Doctor Steuss »

Morley wrote:
Thu Dec 18, 2025 4:32 pm
You're right to mention this, Kish. Word for word, metaphorical language often doesn't translate very well.

When you give someone an over-the-top compliment in Farsi, you'll often get a response that translates as "Oh, you're just putting watermelons under my arms." In Farsi, it makes perfect sense. The English version, not so much.
There's a German comedian/DJ that used to make a lot of videos of him struggling with initial encounters with American idioms.

One of my all-time favorites was "party pooper."

I can only imagine the futility of trying to literally translate "jury rig" for someone into Yoruba (using the common nautical etymology) and expecting them to intuitively get the Americanized idiom's meaning.
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Re: African Book of Mormon translations starting to remove “skin of blackness” and other racist phraseology

Post by Shulem »

Equality wrote:
Thu Dec 18, 2025 5:08 pm
If only we had an Oxford Reformed Egyptian dictionary.

If only we had some LDS board members from Africa who are fluent in the language that could tell us what the verse really says in their homeland. That would do just fine!

:|
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Re: African Book of Mormon translations starting to remove “skin of blackness” and other racist phraseology

Post by Shulem »

Doctor Steuss wrote:
Thu Dec 18, 2025 5:23 pm
One of my all-time favorites was "party pooper."
:lol:
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Re: African Book of Mormon translations starting to remove “skin of blackness” and other racist phraseology

Post by Shulem »

I Have Questions wrote:
Thu Dec 18, 2025 5:10 pm
I concur with that. I’d also say there’s a difference between the Church choosing to leave out passages in a selections based Book of Mormon “lite”, and the Church allowing a translation that misleads the reader into thinking the reference about skin colour was something entirely different. I know the church is doing the former, but is there evidence of it doing the latter?

We will find out for sure. Count on it.
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Re: African Book of Mormon translations starting to remove “skin of blackness” and other racist phraseology

Post by Kishkumen »

Equality wrote:
Thu Dec 18, 2025 5:08 pm
I think to get to the bottom of this we really need to know what the exact Reformed Egyptian characters were on the plates that were translated to "skin of blackness" by Joseph Smith but later translated by an unknown church bureaucrat as "black blindness."

How have other documents in Reformed Egyptian using those same characters been translated into Chichewa and English?

Unfortunately...

But one thing we do know for sure: "black blindness" and "skin of blackness" are not at all the same. Translating "skin of blackness" into a Chichewa phrase that means "black blindness" is, inarguably, an act of deception on the part of whoever did it. As is the church's refusal to correct the error in translation after it has been pointed out to them.

If only we had an Oxford Reformed Egyptian dictionary.
You must be writing an article for Interpreter!

:lol:

Seriously, though, one need not have a deceptive agenda to end up landing on a different expression. I have no doubt there is a lot of editing to suppress the original text and its meaning for obvious purposes, but I can't say for certain without a thorough knowledge of Chichewa and the relevant culture and history.
"He disturbs the laws of his country, he forces himself upon women, and he puts men to death without trial.” ~Otanes on the monarch, Herodotus Histories 3.80.
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KHUNGU LAKUDA = BLACK SKIN

Post by Shulem »

Here are people who know the language which I fished from Facebook.

I used the Chichewa - English translator

CHIZMO STING NJUCHI wrote:MUSAMANYOZE MUNTHU W A KHUNGU LAKUDA
DON'T HURT A BLACK SKIN PERSON
Ting'alure wrote:Anthu oyamba (Homo sapiens) anali aku Africa, khungu lakuda chifukwa cha dzuwa lochuluka.
The first humans (Homo sapiens) were Africans, dark skin due to too much sun.
Ting'alure wrote:Ku Europe dzuwa linali lochepa kwambiri. Anthu omwe anali ndi khungu lakuda kwambiri sanalandire vitamini D mokwanira..
In Europe the sun was very low. People who had darker skin did not get enough vitamin D.
Ting'alure wrote:Anthu okhala pakati pa khungu lakuda ndi loyera.
People who live between black and white skin.
KODI MUKUZIWA wrote:Smart Vinti anabadwa opanda utoto(melanin) omwe umapangisa kuonesa khungu lakuda komaso kumuteteza ku phavu ya dzuwa, Pachifukwa ichi ndinkani sakonda ku
Smart Vinti was born without pigment (melanin) which makes the skin look dark and protects him from the sun's rays.
Star Walero wrote:Khungu lakuda ndi mtundu w a khungu la munthu lomwe lili ndi ma *melanin pigment*. Anthu omwe ali ndi khungu lakuda mosakaikira amatchedwa " kuti anthu akuda "( *black people*), ngakhale kuti kugwiritsa ntchito mauwa
Dark skin is the type of human skin that contains *melanin pigments*. People with dark skin are undoubtedly called "black people" (*black people*), although the use of these terms
Edgar Kapiza Bayani wrote:Koma w a khungu lakuda mzanu. Olo m'mwenye sathilidwa unyolo koma wakuda mzanu!
But your dark-skinned friend. The Indian is not chained, but the black is your friend!
Widee Z Lodwelo wrote:INE W A KHUNGU LAKUDA NDI KADYA
CHOLIMBITSA THUPI NDI NSIMA CHINA CHINGAKHALE CHANI
I AM BLACK SKINNED BODY AND MUSCLE STRENGTH WHAT COULD IT BE?
Boyd Zalilo Moyo wrote:Mulungu anakonda Africa. kotero anapereka khungu lakuda kuti yense oyuza asayere km akhalenazo ziphuphu zosatha
God loved Africa. so he gave black skin so that all those who tell the truth will not have permanent acne
THANK YOU
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Re: African Book of Mormon translations starting to remove “skin of blackness” and other racist phraseology

Post by Kishkumen »

Yes, I think it is fair to say that in a context where black skin is viewed very positively, the Book of Mormon's negative sentiments regarding the same would be absurd and offensive. So, the text must be changed to get the same message across. There are two layers in this maneuver. On the one hand, intelligibility demands the change. On the other hand, the LDS Church benefits by hiding the racism of the Book of Mormon.
"He disturbs the laws of his country, he forces himself upon women, and he puts men to death without trial.” ~Otanes on the monarch, Herodotus Histories 3.80.
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Re: African Book of Mormon translations starting to remove “skin of blackness” and other racist phraseology

Post by Shulem »

Kishkumen wrote:
Thu Dec 18, 2025 9:38 pm
Yes, I think it is fair to say that in a context where black skin is viewed very positively, the Book of Mormon's negative sentiments regarding the same would be absurd and offensive. So, the text must be changed to get the same message across. There are two layers in this maneuver. On the one hand, intelligibility demands the change. On the other hand, the LDS Church benefits by hiding the racism of the Book of Mormon.

I appreciate your comments and for putting up with me.

;)
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Re: African Book of Mormon translations starting to remove “skin of blackness” and other racist phraseology

Post by Kishkumen »

Shulem wrote:
Thu Dec 18, 2025 9:41 pm
I appreciate your comments and for putting up with me.

;)
You're an old friend, Shulem. It is no trouble.
"He disturbs the laws of his country, he forces himself upon women, and he puts men to death without trial.” ~Otanes on the monarch, Herodotus Histories 3.80.
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Wordplay

Post by Shulem »

I was impressed with how the Chichewa - English translator properly converted the whole of 1 Nephi chapter one as well as the Thirteen Articles of Faith as demonstrated earlier in this thread. It seemed spot on! So why do we get "black blindness" instead of skin of blackness found in our English versions? What happened to the skin? How did blindness enter the picture? :?

I want to play with my the translator! :lol:

Here is the verse in question (2 Nephi 5:21) with underlined words which have generated the controversy of this thread:

Chichewa wrote:Ndipo adachititsa thembelero kufikira kwa iwo, inde, angakhale thembelero lowawa chifukwa cha mphulupulu zawo. Pakuti taonani, iwo adalimbitsa mitima yawo motsutsana naye, kufikira iwo adakhala ngati mwala; kotero, pamene iwo adali oyera ndi okongola kwambiri, ndi okondweretsa, kuti asakope anthu anga, Ambuye Mulungu adachititsa khungu lakuda kubwera pa iwo.
Translation wrote:And he caused a curse to reach them, yes, it may be a painful curse because of their sins. For behold, they hardened their hearts against him, until they became like a stone; therefore, when they were pure and beautiful, and pleasing, so that they would not attract my people, the Lord God caused black blindness to come upon them.

Let's just look at the first part of the verse and plug it into the translator and see how it compares:

Chichewa wrote:Ndipo adachititsa thembelero kufikira kwa iwo, inde, angakhale thembelero lowawa chifukwa cha mphulupulu zawo. Pakuti taonani, iwo adalimbitsa mitima yawo motsutsana naye, kufikira iwo adakhala ngati mwala; kotero, pamene iwo adali oyera ndi okongola kwambiri, ndi okondweretsa
Translation wrote:And he caused a curse to reach them, yes, it may be a painful curse because of their sins. For behold, they hardened their hearts against him, until they became like a stone; therefore, when they were pure and very beautiful, and pleasant

The above clip seems okay.

Let's continue with the last part of the verse where we have a problem and plug it into the translator:

Chichewa wrote:kuti asakope anthu anga, Ambuye Mulungu adachititsa khungu lakuda kubwera pa iwo.
Translation wrote:In order not to deceive my people, the Lord God caused black blindness to come over them.

Note how the original word "attract" (English version = enticing) is given when the whole verse was translated but is now rendered "deceive" when out of context which makes for a negative connotation! Does this influence how the Chichewa translation plays out?

Now, let's translate the last part of the verse separately without the negative connotation above and see what magically happens:

Chichewa wrote:Ambuye Mulungu adachititsa khungu lakuda kubwera pa iwo.
Translation wrote:The Lord God caused darkness to come upon them.

Wow! Note how God caused DARKNESS/BLACKNESS to come upon them! Blackness came upon the Lamanites, NOT blindness which is a wordplay generated by the negativity of "deceive" which wrongfully influences the true meaning of the text.

Busted! :shock:

Kish?
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