The apologist’s evening prayer

[drumdude]

From all my lame defeats and oh! much more
From all the victories that I seemed to score;
From cleverness shot forth on Thy behalf
At which, while angels weep, the audience laugh;
From all my proofs of Thy divinity,
Thou, who wouldst give no sign, deliver me.

Thoughts are but coins. Let me not trust, instead
Of Thee, their thin-worn image of Thy head.
From all my thoughts, even from my thoughts of Thee,
O thou fair Silence, fall, and set me free.
Lord of the narrow gate and the needle’s eye,
Take from me all my trumpery lest I die.

It seems to me CS Lewis belongs to a much higher tier of men than the current Christian and Mormon apologists belong to. Can you imagine a world where DCP doesn’t get his daily validation from his blog? Where Kwaku doesn’t go viral on YouTube? Where Robert Boylan spends the evening reading rather than bashing transgender women?

If a God, even Mormon God exists, he is surely weeping over his most strident defenders of the faith.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

If the church is truly led by God’s prophet, seer and revelator, the Apostles and General Authorities, then why are there self-appointed mopologists? The Afore’s existence proves the church is a fraud.

The mopologists don’t have any authority, so what's the point, besides obfuscating the facts and gaslighting the faithful?

Never mind, I think I just answered my own question.

[Dr. Shades]

If the church is truly led by God’s prophet, seer and revelator, the Apostles and General Authorities, then why are there self-appointed mopologists?

In my mind, the fact that the Salt Lake City-based church has a public relations spokesman is a huge red flag. If it was really being led by Jesus Christ, shouldn't THE PROPHET be the public relations spokesman?

[I Have Questions]

If the church is truly led by God’s prophet, seer and revelator, the Apostles and General Authorities, then why are there self-appointed mopologists?

In my mind, the fact that the Salt Lake City-based church has a public relations spokesman is a huge red flag. If it was really being led by Jesus Christ, shouldn't THE PROPHET be the public relations spokesman?

That's a very good point. If the Prophet is the only man on earth that speaks for God, then delegating that duty to a PR Team seems like a dereliction of duty. Not only that, it creates a wall whereby one cannot know if what is being said is what God wanted said, or what the Prophet decided he wanted to be said.

[huckelberry]

I was unaware that LDS view was that only the prophet could speak for God. I thought God had many speakers.

[bbbbbbb]

I was unaware that LDS view was that only the prophet could speak for God. I thought God had many speakers.

I always have been of the opinion that Prophets prophesy (the future), Seers see (the future) and Revelators reveal (the future). When you combine all three powers in one man, then you can naturally expect truly amazing results. Whether or not this chap is burdened by PR activities seems to be beside the fact that he is entrusted to foretell the future in clear and accurate terms to everyone, especially his loyal followers. I cannot recall a time in the history of Mormonism where that has actually been the case. Even the vaunted Mr. Smith was derelict in these duties, although he did make some impressive prophecies which, sadly, never came to pass.

[huckelberry]

I was unaware that LDS view was that only the prophet could speak for God. I thought God had many speakers.

I always have been of the opinion that Prophets prophesy (the future), Seers see (the future) and Revelators reveal (the future). When you combine all three powers in one man, then you can naturally expect truly amazing results. Whether or not this chap is burdened by PR activities seems to be beside the fact that he is entrusted to foretell the future in clear and accurate terms to everyone, especially his loyal followers. I cannot recall a time in the history of Mormonism where that has actually been the case. Even the vaunted Mr. Smith was derelict in these duties, although he did make some impressive prophecies which, sadly, never came to pass.

Bbb, you seem to be inventing a job description. Why ? In recent years there seems to be an increase in popularity of freelance prophets. Are you thinking of them? Biblical or Islamic examples do not fit your expectations and you note Mormon history does not either.

[bbbbbbb]

I always have been of the opinion that Prophets prophesy (the future), Seers see (the future) and Revelators reveal (the future). When you combine all three powers in one man, then you can naturally expect truly amazing results. Whether or not this chap is burdened by PR activities seems to be beside the fact that he is entrusted to foretell the future in clear and accurate terms to everyone, especially his loyal followers. I cannot recall a time in the history of Mormonism where that has actually been the case. Even the vaunted Mr. Smith was derelict in these duties, although he did make some impressive prophecies which, sadly, never came to pass.

Bbb, you seem to be inventing a job description. Why ? In recent years there seems to be an increase in popularity of freelance prophets. Are you thinking of them? Biblical or Islamic examples do not fit your expectations and you note Mormon history does not either.

Actually, I did not invent the job description. The writers of the Old Testament did it long before I came on the scene. They seem to have been pretty successful in their efforts. Even Jonah, whose prophecy about Ninevah failed to come about because God changed His mind after Ninevah repented.

There have seem to have been a plethora of various prophets, seers, and revelators throughout history in all cultures. The vast majority of these failed to deliver the goods. The cleverer ones reinvented the role into that of preaching. Mormonism, in this regard, falls easily into the mold. Its Prophet, Seer, and Revelator does not, cannot, or will not (take your pick) prophecy future events, see into the future, or reveal the future.

Now, it seems that he is being accused of being derelict in his duties by relying on other folks to take up public relations. Personally, I do not see public relations as being in the biblical job description of a prophet, or a seer, or a revelator, do you?

[MG 2.0]

If the church is truly led by God’s prophet, seer and revelator, the Apostles and General Authorities, then why are there self-appointed mopologists?

In my mind, the fact that the Salt Lake City-based church has a public relations spokesman is a huge red flag. If it was really being led by Jesus Christ, shouldn't THE PROPHET be the public relations spokesman?

Not necessarily. But he should be the one that has the keys of this dispensation and directs the affairs of the church if he is physically/spiritually able to do so. If not, his counselors step up to the occasion and help where needed. It appears that President Nelson, even at his age, is still directing the church.

I'm always a bit flummoxed as to why the critics seem to be so concerned about God stepping in and micromanaging on every little decision/policy/pronouncement.

Why is that?

Regards,
MG

[Chap]

I'm always a bit flummoxed as to why the critics seem to be so concerned about God stepping in and micromanaging on every little decision/policy/pronouncement.

Have you read Doctrines and Covenantts recently?

The Mormon deity seems quite happy to micromanage in the revelations recorded by Joseph Smith. See below.

Wash in whisky, saith the Lord ... (verse 7). And hold off hot drinks ... (verse 9). Had he nothing more important to attend to?

Here is section 89:

1 A Word of Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

3 Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.

4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

8 And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.