What is Going on on March 4th?

[canpakes]

Well, now - looks like this whole thing has been moved out to March 20.

https://www.businessinsider.com/qanon-m ... -20-2021-3

[Dr Exiled]

Well, now - looks like this whole thing has been moved out to March 20.

https://www.businessinsider.com/qanon-m ... -20-2021-3

Just like Jesus will come back tomorrow, no, in 5 days, no in 5 years, no in ......

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

The point I'm trying to make is that Q really is a community negotiation, and not a plot or set of doctrines by one person or group, even though certainly, many of folks involved with it have their own agendas. It's a mess of contradictions, out right stupidity, and varying agendas, but the beating heart is the possibility that some insider is leaking intel and a certain former president is in absolute control.

I thought about this post today, and it reminded me of a thing I read, I dunno, a few years back with regard to how we got to this point of a bunch of hyper paranoid morons being mad at the world or whatever.

Basically, American prosperity Jesus started around the 30s. I can't recall which ones, but there were quite a few corporations who opposed the New Deal, and so they linked free market capitalism to Christianity. Something like 15 or 20% of all ministers in the US were hitching Christianity to American economic principles of less gubmint and mo' rugged individualism - low taxes for the rich ifyaknowwhatimean. At some point millions of copies of a book called The Road to Serfdom were being distro'd through churches and whatnot. <- My dad wanted me to read it when I was like 12- I thumbed through it because I was more into The Sword of Shannara than paranoid right wing politicking. The book was written by a guy named by Hayek that said government power in the economy eventually guarantees tyranny.

Reagan was a big fan if that gives you an idea with regard to to its premise.

Anyway, there were a series of corporate campaigns against the New Deal where they basically bought the ministry of what would become the 80s Evangelical movement. From that point I'm sure we can see the incremental pieces that fell into place until the insurrection happened on the 6th.

But, yeah. Q has its roots in the 1930s anti-New Deal movement. At least that's how my brain sees it.

- Doc

[Gadianton]

At some point millions of copies of a book called The Road to Serfdom were being distro'd through churches and whatnot. <- My dad wanted me to read it when I was like 12- I thumbed through it because I was more into The Sword of Shannara than paranoid right wing politicking. The book was written by a guy named by Hayek that said government power in the economy eventually guarantees tyranny.

Reagan was a big fan if that gives you an idea with regard to to its premise.

Anyway, there were a series of corporate campaigns against the New Deal where they basically bought the ministry of what would become the 80s Evangelical movement. From that point I'm sure we can see the incremental pieces that fell into place until the insurrection happened on the 6th.

That's Droopy's favorite book. That book motivated a lot of free-market economists, including Milton, but Milton said basically flat out, that other than that book, Von Hayek sucked as an economist. Droopy's "Austrian school", which underpins Tea Party thinking, Rand Paul and Dad, Glenn Beck, is rooted in Von Hayek, Von Mises, and Murray Rothbard (who DCP apparently had lunch with one time). Rothbard wrote a history attempting to show that central banks are entirely responsible for the business cycle. "Austrians" don't have much credibility because they don't do real research, but they are great at marketing themselves. His name escapes me, but a Historian EA used to talk about, who is a Christian Reconstructionist that believes in bringing back the stoning of sinners, has standing at the Von Mises Institute. He gave a speech once telling students of Von Mises to go out and preach Rothbard's book because they'll never, ever themselves write a book that great. That stuck with me because it showed how literally, economics for the religious right has become doctrine rather than something close to a science. Post Friedman, the University of Chicago has diversified its staff substantially. That's not necessarily to be more liberal, I think it's because while a lot of the best economic theory comes from free-market economists, a lot of stuff hasn't really panned out like it seemed it would. When is the last time you've even heard the word "Monetarism"? But the best the religious right can do these days is Prager U on Youtube, which is utter garbage. As I think you pointed out yourself not too long ago, the right isn't interested in a free market, they just want to be the protected class.

But there is this other dimension to the culture you're talking about that gets deeper into the conspiracy angle. Cleon Skousen was a big name here. He wrote a book called The Naked Capitalist, which reviewed a 1300 page book by this guy, Carrol Quigley, which was supposedly, to put it in today's terms, an expose of the Deep State: how the modern world had been built and controlled by a few elitists. Quigley was a serious scholar, and he counted himself as one of the elite and said in the book he was breaking ranks with their vows of secrecy, because he felt they deserved credit and that their force was unstoppable anyways. The book has no footnotes. Quigley is like, believe me or don't, I really don't care. Well now, guess who was also a Rhoads scholar and paid tribute to Quigley once in a speech? (guess, don't look down yet)


that's right, Bill Clinton! Lol! So you can imagine Skousen and his buddies in Arizona going absolutely nuts. I bought the book when I was around 17, I read a few hundred pages of it, but boy, was it a sleeper. It read more like real history and I wasn't seeing how any of it was an obvious conspiracy, but then again, I was 17 (or so). Some of his social commentary is pretty amusing, that's about all I remember. He had the same kinds of critiques as Nibley, he hated capitalism, and he believed in something like the law of consecration, but only among those of old money. It sucked that Harvard was letting students in based on test scores rather than family ties.

Quigley and Rothbard are the 'legitimate' secular angles. They are dated and their credibility might not have ever been fantastic, but it's the high point of conspiracy as real scholarship. Libertarianism had its own worldly branch headed by Ayn Rand. Even Alan Greenspan was into that crap. But it got taken over by Christianity, as you point out. So what unique contribution did Christianity make to Q, or are they just hijackers?

No, Christianity made a huge contribution, besides being dogmatic and gullible. They became very scared of the devil back in the 70's and 80's. They looked for backwards messages in music and built bonfires out of their rock-n-roll records and tapes. They were scared of marijuana, scared of the outfits KISS wore, scared of ouija boards, scared of Dungeons and Dragons, and they came to believe in a conspiracy of ritualistic sex abuse by Satanists. Remember the king of gullibility himself, Glenn Pace? A Mormon leader? Apparently, they were effective in getting legislation passed to counter ritualistic abuse, which is now evidence that there was a problem.

[Some Schmo]

No, Christianity made a huge contribution, besides being dogmatic and gullible.

Any philosophy that encourages belief without evidence conditions a brain to be susceptible to outrageous crap. If you can accept a dude walked on water, turned it into wine, fed a multitude with a few fish, and came back to life after being tortured to death (among other ridiculous stories), you'll pretty much believe anything.

But worse than that, not only does it soften your immunity to BS, it actively encourages people to ignore basic facts. Religions steer people away from the nutritious food and toward the crap pies.

[Moksha]

Future Skousen's might point out that a post-apocalyptic economy based on bottle caps is not ultimately sustainable when people might unearth precious gold bars. Then they could bring back Rothbard and Von Mises. Hope that helps.

by the way, Trump's crazed QAnon followers can be revolting any day of the year.

[Res Ipsa]

The point I'm trying to make is that Q really is a community negotiation, and not a plot or set of doctrines by one person or group, even though certainly, many of folks involved with it have their own agendas. It's a mess of contradictions, out right stupidity, and varying agendas, but the beating heart is the possibility that some insider is leaking intel and a certain former president is in absolute control.

I thought about this post today, and it reminded me of a thing I read, I dunno, a few years back with regard to how we got to this point of a bunch of hyper paranoid morons being mad at the world or whatever.

Basically, American prosperity Jesus started around the 30s. I can't recall which ones, but there were quite a few corporations who opposed the New Deal, and so they linked free market capitalism to Christianity. Something like 15 or 20% of all ministers in the US were hitching Christianity to American economic principles of less gubmint and mo' rugged individualism - low taxes for the rich ifyaknowwhatimean. At some point millions of copies of a book called The Road to Serfdom were being distro'd through churches and whatnot. <- My dad wanted me to read it when I was like 12- I thumbed through it because I was more into The Sword of Shannara than paranoid right wing politicking. The book was written by a guy named by Hayek that said government power in the economy eventually guarantees tyranny.

Reagan was a big fan if that gives you an idea with regard to to its premise.

Anyway, there were a series of corporate campaigns against the New Deal where they basically bought the ministry of what would become the 80s Evangelical movement. From that point I'm sure we can see the incremental pieces that fell into place until the insurrection happened on the 6th.

But, yeah. Q has its roots in the 1930s anti-New Deal movement. At least that's how my brain sees it.

- Doc

I read a very good book about the history of the merger between Christianity and business in the US: One Nation Under God. It sounds similar to what you read. It was fascinating.