The Military and Trump: Questions for Dr. Cam

[Gadianton]

So, you have acquaintances in the neighborhood who are casually discussing their plans about killing neighbors who disagree with their choice of candidate?

I have 3 right-wing acquaintances/friends who are older, born-again Christians of varying commitment, and shaped by Fox News and decades of right-wing email circulation. They don't know about the QAnon stuff. The one guy, the fanatic of the group, has only recently learned about it, but he's not receptive.

This military guy I wouldn't put into the friend category, he's an acquaintance who I've been cordial with, but from the beginning there were red flags all over the place. I met him the first time when a woman on the path told him to put his dog on a leash and he went ballistic. The next time I saw him, he was with an attractive woman and a little girl, and he fell over himself to sacrifice a bottle of designer water for my dog because clearly he was embarrassed. The next time I saw him, he looked unkempt and explained he had to physically remove his girlfriend from his house for anger issues and he was planning to move to a farm property in Europe somewhere.

He didn't actually say he would kill neighbors. I tried to bait him into saying he would kill me (lol) but he resisted. He said if Joe Biden were standing before him right now that he would not hesitate to shoot him dead. He said of a friend living abroad who blocked him on Facebook, that if that guy were here when "the time came" that he would not hesitate to kill him. He said he would kill Democrats in the context of; once the civil war starts and he allies himself with a QAnon unit on the ground (apparently he's not part of any paramilitary community online or in real life right now), and they move into the fight, wherever that is.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I think your friend is actually a derpoid, Gad. He seems pretty unhinged.

- Doc

[honorentheos]

... the demeanor of someone who would be excited to finally get to kill liberals.

Not that it would matter if - as Doc puts it - things get ‘hot’, but it’s weird how much overlap there probably is between folks willing to do this, and folks who seem to use the abortion issue as their reason to be on that same side of the political fence.

The circles I run in seem to have too many fanatics on both sides. The Mormon/Utah/Arizona/Army connections bring in the right wing fanatics while my professional associates are largely educated liberals.

And frankly I hear calls for violence with a wishful gleam in the eye from folks on both sides. Punching Nazis, shooting liberals, wanting to see people die in horrible ways brought on by environmental recklessness as their just desserts, hunters killed by animals, bleeding hearts murdered by criminals...people are pretty broken regardless of their politics when they have failed to anchor their views to values that run deeper than the grown up equivalent of high school loyalties.

Honestly? I think anyone who is absolutely certain they are in the right has the beginnings of being willing to do violence based on that unrealistic assurance of their own correctness. As I've gotten older I find I prefer people who are pragmatic, but just enough while still enjoying art and wonder, and have a sense of how easy it is to be wrong when it seems so obvious I am right. In exmos I prefer the people who have learned that from their experience over those who are just on a new team but with their old Mormon fanaticism intact, for example.

[Gadianton]

For context, roughly how old would you say this guy is?

Great question. Guessing early 40s.

Your comments about unrealistic views of combat are interesting because I spoke with yet another acquaintance I see on walks about the run-in after it happened on the phone (he's Schmo level anti-Trump). He's a tough guy himself, and questioned the special-ops status based on a myriad of special-ops guys he apparently knows. He pointed out not only the high intelligence required to be special ops, but psych profile must be rock solid. Guys like that don't go around confronting neighbors and bragging about what bad asses they are (like faqs). And it was a good point, because as he told the story of soldiers on the ground being abandoned by Obama sometimes he was telling it first person, and later he'd shift to the experiences of his friends.

[honorentheos]

I think your friend is actually a derpoid, Gad. He seems pretty unhinged.

- Doc

That seems possible for sure. I thought your point about his possibly being support in an SF unit was a helpful insight. It brought to mind a guy I know who was in Afghanistan who worked on helicopters. He saw wounded and dead being brought in, helped the medics at times, and he was livid after returning home over the war and Obama. It wasn't rational...but it had a form of internal logic that one could follow to connect the dots as to why he became so militant in his anti-Obama views. He was seeing the carnage, was impotent in terms of not being a rifle carrier, only saw one side of the consequences of the fighting from inside the wire, and I think it left crap unresolved for him. And then he was dumped back on the civilian side with all of that cooking inside of him. I haven't talked to him in years but I wouldn't be surprised to find out he was a Qanon believer and aching to take back the country from the socialists and liberals destroying America from the inside. But maybe not. People.

[Gadianton]

Cam,

Thank you, that helps a lot. If I ever talk to this guy again, and I'm not sure how I want to play it from here, I'll try to get more information about the specifics of the situation regarding Obama denying troops ammo. My right-wing friend who was with us told me after that of the many things this other guy said, the one thing he was familiar with was Obama turning his backs on his troops while Trump supports them. I don't want to dis this guy's combat experiences, and so I need to approach this carefully, but I suspect there might be a meme about Obama withholding ammo, or something like that. I'm not going to rush out and look for such a thing though until I can ask him further questions. IF I ever do.

How do I figure out his military background? If I ask him if he was army or marines, what questions do I ask from there to figure out if he was "special forces"?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Cam,

Thank you, that helps a lot. If I ever talk to this guy again, and I'm not sure how I want to play it from here, I'll try to get more information about the specifics of the situation regarding Obama denying troops ammo. My right-wing friend who was with us told me after that of the many things this other guy said, the one thing he was familiar with was Obama turning his backs on his troops while Trump supports them. I don't want to dis this guy's combat experiences, and so I need to approach this carefully, but I suspect there might be a meme about Obama withholding ammo, or something like that. I'm not going to rush out and look for such a thing though until I can ask him further questions. IF I ever do.

How do I figure out his military background? If I ask him if he was army or marines, what questions do I ask from there to figure out if he was "special forces"?

Just ask him what unit he was assigned to. This is usually a pretty good tell with regard to stolen valor types or derpoids. Guys who were careerists will most likely respond with something to the effect, "Well, I was assigned to a lot of units throughout my career. But I served with *insert specific company - battalion - brigade* while deployed to *insert country* from *insert time period*." For example:

https://ut.ng.mil/Home/Public-Notice-Ar ... ghanistan/

A regular guy would just say something like, "Oh. I was assigned to A co, 1st Attack/Reconnaissance Battalion, 211th Aviation Regiment and we were in Afghanistan in 2020 (maybe he'd be specific with, "May 2020 until May 2021") as a mechanic."

A derpoid or stolen valor type, assuming he was part of the unit as a mechanic, but wanted you to believe he was a crap hot operator would be like, "I was in Afghanistan with 'group' (this would be cool guy speak for an SF group, in this guy's case he'd be somewhat familiar with Utah's 19th Special Forces Group)." followed by some Hollywood stories about death, or firefights, or being at a forward operating base taking fire, or how he saw this or that thing go down when on patrol or how the President didn't let them have ammo and their 'terp was smoked as a result and now he has ptsd and freaks out in his sleep or whatever.

If he were a grey man? He might've dropped it, in context because you know he served or it was relevant to some conversation you guys were having, that the 19th SFG deployed here or there. And when you pressed him for service-related details he'd probably answer frankly, but somewhat vaguely because he's chill and doesn't really need to tell stories or embellish things. He'd relate information like he'd relate a weather report, I suspect. These guys don't really view being in SF as conversational cudgel.

- Doc

[canpakes]

... hunters killed by animals, ...

OK. Given that my mind insists on illustrating everything that I read in real time and usually with comical effect, I literally lol-ed when I read that.

Given the potentially serious subject of this thread, that was a nice tension-breaker. Thank you, honor.

[honorentheos]

... hunters killed by animals, ...

OK. Given that my mind insists on illustrating everything that I read in real time and usually with comical effect, I literally lol-ed when I read that.

Given the potentially serious subject of this thread, that was a nice tension-breaker. Thank you, honor.

I'm glad it had that effect. I was just trying to recall the odd things I've heard said at happy hours over the years where I'd find myself wondering if my liberal co-workers and spouses had traded minds with my Mormon conservative family members. It's surprising how "Mad Lib" like the conversations can be.

1) Pick topic based on opposed political position or social behavior.
2) Insert a proper noun for a low-down dirt politician associated with topic.
3) Insert name of celebrity who represents the vapid nature of the topic.
4) Insert media that supports topic and celebrity associated with it. Complain of how said media and celebrity are what's wrong with <insert America if conservative, insert the World if liberal, insert the two party system if not conservative or liberal>. Etc., etc.
5) Insert method for protecting ones self and <pick family if conservative, pick friend group if liberal and single, pick "us" if liberal and in a committed relationship, pick person you are currently having sex with the most regularly if libertarian or omit if not currently having regular sex with a person not expressing their right to use their body as they choose without government interference in their fulfilling a need in the market> from opposing political figure's mindless supporters.
6) Congratulate everyone present for being one of the <choose any or all of the following as desired: smart, patriotic, sincere, good, honest, decent, God-loving, science-affirming, real world inhabiting, non-delusional, champion of all things awesome and good> ones.
7) Insert act of violence that said politician and/or celebrity deserve to have happen to them, preferably ironically involving their being proved wrong about said topic at the same time.
8) <insert approving nods if 7 is suitably ironic. Otherwise move quickly to 9>
9) Cleanse palate by talking in suitably judgmental ways about someone in the room at another table and/or a <choose community member, family member, or co-worker> not present.
10) Down <default choice is beer. Insert option fries or dessert if Mormon at the table with other Mormon. Insert water with lemon if one had one beer already and needs to drive, is monitoring one's carbs, or is over 30 and doesn't like the taste of alcohol. Insert wine if there is a table cloth (paper or cloth irrelevant) and you are not Mormon with greater than zero other Mormons at the table. Insert mixed drink if it's a weekend. Inert Scotch/Whiskey if you'd be drinking that alone at home right now anyway if not out with co-workers/family/"us".>
10) Check time and comment on how late it is unless it is earlier than 9 PM on a week night or before midnight on a Friday or Saturday night. In which case comment on how early it still is.
11) If comment was on how early it is, repeat 1. If anyone has left before now, make sure they are the topic of 9. If comment was how late it is, insert request check unless person you wanted to talk about took the hint and left. Then repeat 1 making that person the topic of 1, 2, and especially be sure to compliment everyone present for being able to see through person who left's BS.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

In a timely dovetail this article was linked by Drudge regarding Joe Rogan and why he seems to tee off the Left so much:

https://nypost.com/2020/12/05/why-the-l ... s-podcast/

Admittedly, I haven’t listened to him since, I believe, February when I cancelled my Planet Fatness membership*. I’d typically throw on his YouTube-hosted interviews while on the elliptical, and found his interview style useful for understanding different points of view minus his obsession with DMT and weed.

* The last straw was when an old lady was coughing uncontrollably with no effort to cover her mouth or remove herself from the gym. That’s when I turned to my wife and said we’re rolling the dice too much and we’ll come back to PF when this thing is over.

Anyway, Honor, as a radical Centrist I couldn’t agree more with your post. It’s crazy to me how partisans view their own ideology as the reasonable starting point, the center as it were, and anyone to the Left or Right of their position is a *insert over the top description here*. Maybe we’re all that way to some degree, I’m not so sure that isn’t the case.

- Doc