Happy Treason Weasel Day!!

[Some Schmo]

Is it my imagination or is that Leonardo DiCaprio?

You’re just seeing things. It’s actually Florida Man:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/ ... ief-759308

I was about to give you crap for telling me I was just seeing things, but now I realize you thought I was in on the joke.

But I hope you can imagine (now that you know that I wasn't in on the meme) how you telling me "you’re just seeing things" would seem very misleading.

ETA: And I'll just confess... part of me did think I was seeing things.

[Res Ipsa]

As far as I know, unresolved question. I saw a discussion of this issue today with what I thought was a very good argument that as long as the impeachment happens before the end of the term, the trial can occur after the end of the term. But I don’t know of any legal precedent.

It’s interesting how many ‘unresolved questions’, usually involving undesirable outcomes, that we’ve needed to consider that have been brought to the fore by the actions of Trump and his Administration.

Man, that’s the truth. Roman Mars did an excellent podcast series called What Trump Can Teach Us About Con Law. It looks at the many, many constitutional issues Trump’s conduct has raised during his term in office. Lots of questions without settled answers.

[Jersey Girl]

Dr. Todd Grande analysis.

Capitol Riot Analysis | What Role Did Narcissism Play?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7aiPmn ... L&index=11

Thanks, Jersey Girl. I watched this and found it pretty interesting. I watched a couple of his other clips on narcissism, too. He has a nice ability to explain practical consequences without getting caught up in jargon.

Yes. As you can well imagine, there's a plethora of youtube content creators that offer analysis. I consider him and one other to be top drawer mainly because they are well researched, hold the appropriate credentials, and they teach so that almost anyone can understand their analyses. The other therapist doesn't cover American politicians and events but if she does I'll link to it.

[Jersey Girl]

Hey guys I need help understanding something about Impeachment. So the Democrats apparently are saying they could vote to Impeach by next Wednesday. I know that (at least I think I know this) Impeachment also takes a vote in the Senate.

Here's my question. If the clock runs out on the Senate vote, does the House vote count for preventing Trump from running again in 2024?

Also while I am at it, let's say the clock runs out, would the move to Impeach still go to the Senate after Jan 20th or does the action stop at that point?

As far as I know, unresolved question. I saw a discussion of this issue today with what I thought was a very good argument that as long as the impeachment happens before the end of the term, the trial can occur after the end of the term. But I don’t know of any legal precedent.

Just earlier I listened to a press conference with Pelosi from yesterday. Previously I had only heard a few minutes of it. She describes the options at hand and their significance. She did not address the questions I have. Perhaps that's because this is uncharted territory as you indicated.

I don't know if anyone here has seen a Trump deposition. If he needs to be deposed, all I can tell you is that he's slippery and evasive as hell.

[Lem]

I had an interesting discussion the other day with a relative. anytime I have given a source in the past, they would always state 'false news! False news!'

In a recent conversation, however, they went a little further and said 'false news! Channel 2 [ABC], channel 4 [NBC] channel 7 [CBS], Washington Post, NYTimes, CNN! All false news!' I just let this go, but it was difficult. (they named their channels in their time zone, but I knew what they meant.)

So, after some time passed, I was speaking to them again on another topic and I asked them if I could ask a serious question. Did they think that all of the sources they mentioned that day really do make things up or lie about what they are reporting? They said yes, absolutely. I asked, 'how do you know that?' They said 'how do you know they are not?' so, I told them that I read original sources where I can, compare the reports of one group with others, look at original interviews, etc.

Then I asked them, 'how do YOU know what you hear is fake?' they said, 'well, most of it is just common sense, I can tell its a lie just by my common sense.' (so, no research, no reading, no multiple sources, etc. )

Now, I felt a little bad about this part, but I asked them in a supportive voice, 'oh, so if what you hear doesn't agree with what you already know is true, then that's your common sense talking?' they said 'yes!!' I then asked, again supportively, 'does your common sense understanding always match what you already know is true about Trump being a good President?' the answer, 'Yes, of course. Because it's always true.'

I wish I could say I was kidding, but this was a real conversation. You can't fix stupid.

[Some Schmo]

I’m not saying she shouldn’t be prosecuted. Part of the risk of violent revolution is losing, resulting in punishment that can be pretty severe. I think that helps us decide when a revolution is worthwhile. If there were no consequences, we’d have a different revolution every day.

But, she’s got the same basic equipment that I do — the same wiring and the same cognitive biases. So, as much as I reject what she’s done, there’s a bit of “there but for the Grace of God go I” lurking in my brain.

I've been considering this and the thrust of your post a lot the last couple days, RI. These people believed the Trump BS so deeply and are so pissed off at America, they were willing to publicly, brazenly, and feeling righteously storm the Capitol Building. They really believe that BS. Or they are really pissed off at American government. Or both.

Can you blame them, based on what they were led to believe?

I guess where it falls down for me is that they all have access to the same information I do. The all have the same means to check their sources of information that I do. Are they lazy for not doing the verification work? At some point, they are ultimately responsible for their behavior. If you decide to take up arms against your own country, you better be doing that for an excellent reason, and you better make sure that reason is based on solid, verified information. Following a mindless mob is never a good idea.

[Morley]

I had an interesting discussion the other day with a relative. anytime I have given a source in the past, they would always state 'false news! False news!'

In a recent conversation, however, they went a little further and said 'false news! Channel 2 [ABC], channel 4 [NBC] channel 7 [CBS], Washington Post, NYTimes, CNN! All false news!' I just let this go, but it was difficult. (they named their channels in their time zone, but I knew what they meant.)

So, after some time passed, I was speaking to them again on another topic and I asked them if I could ask a serious question. Did they think that all of the sources they mentioned that day really do make things up or lie about what they are reporting? They said yes, absolutely. I asked, 'how do you know that?' They said 'how do you know they are not?' so, I told them that I read original sources where I can, compare the reports of one group with others, look at original interviews, etc.

Then I asked them, 'how do YOU know what you hear is fake?' they said, 'well, most of it is just common sense, I can tell its a lie just by my common sense.' (so, no research, no reading, no multiple sources, etc. )

Now, I felt a little bad about this part, but I asked them in a supportive voice, 'oh, so if what you hear doesn't agree with what you already know is true, then that's your common sense talking?' they said 'yes!!' I then asked, again supportively, 'does your common sense understanding always match what you already know is true about Trump being a good President?' the answer, 'Yes, of course. Because it's always true.'

I wish I could say I was kidding, but this was a real conversation. You can't fix stupid.

Or willful ignorance. I've had the same conversations and I'm lost as to what we do about this. Are we doomed as a species?

.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I think it feels real good to get some group consensus. Real good. Confirmation bias is a helluva drug.

- Doc

[Some Schmo]

Or willful ignorance. I've had the same conversations and I'm lost as to what we do about this. Are we doomed as a species?

I don't think there's any doubt. I mean, I think we'll be mostly ok for our lifetimes, but I don't like the species' chances in the next couple centuries, no.

Of course, it occurs to me that I won't be around to see whether my prediction pans out, so easy for me to say. I guess I'm just saying that pessimism has won this argument for me.

[Chap]

I’m not saying she shouldn’t be prosecuted. ...

I'm very glad to hear that.

[...] They all have the same means to check their sources of information that I do. Are they lazy for not doing the verification work? At some point, they are ultimately responsible for their behavior. If you decide to take up arms against your own country, you better be doing that for an excellent reason, and you better make sure that reason is based on solid, verified information. Following a mindless mob is never a good idea.

And they all know enough to realise that a violent attack on the physical integrity and normal functioning of any legally functioning organisation, let alone Congress, is against the law. The same would apply if they burst into the kitchen of a McDonalds and stopped the cooks doing their job. And this was the beating heart of US democracy that they managed to stop for quite a while.

While some of these people are, admittedly, ill-educated and ill-informed, there is no way that they did not know that what they were doing was against the law. If they are not prosecuted on the grounds of their wilfully ignorant and deluded state, that will open a lot of doors through which some really horrible, evil and malevolent people will march in, grinning all over their faces. This is not a time to deal softly with people who boasted of their use of violence and the threat of violence, and now want to whimper about 'Poor little me - I just didn't know any better'.