Happy Treason Weasel Day!!

[Lem]

I'm not a vet, so I can't answer from that standpoint, but there is evidence from her social media that she was part of the QAnon cult. I'm quite sure that she sincerely believed that she was a patriot and part of the second American revolution. Being a true believer overrides the part of the brain responsible for every day common sense. As much as I despise what happened yesterday, I can't help but feel compassion for her. I published a link to a report on vets being singled out for radicalization, often initiated from foreign enemies that want to destabilize the U.S. She was preyed upon by people who understand how brains work, and that propaganda is an effective tool for mobilizing brains: rich folks like Rupert Murdoch, Medal of Freedom winner Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, etc., cynical politicians like Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, and foreign governments that want to weaken or destroy the U.S. Even after an extensive bi-partisan report on what the Russians did during the 2016 election, we still have folks here spreading the lie that all they did was buy a few Facebook ads. Vets are just as susceptible to propaganda as anyone else. As a recent example, the plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer was created through recruitment of active military. We have to stop pretending that the deliberate dissemination of lies is harmless and figure out how to effectively respond, or the next attack on the Capitol will be truly devastating.

That's truly sad, thank you for the information. I'll read the report you mentioned about singling out vets. That seems to get right to the heart of it.

[Res Ipsa]

Vets are just as susceptible to propaganda as anyone else.

I think they're actually a little more susceptible to some types of propaganda. You know, "I'm a patriot" and all that.

.

I don't know, Morley. I don't feel like I'm in a position to judge that. I didn't serve, so I'm out of my depth. I just know that our brains are wired in ways that make us all susceptible to cognitive biases, and that we are all susceptible to being taken in by a combination of those biases and manipulation. I read a very good book this fall titled "Calling BS." It's written by a couple of University of Washington professors who teach a course by the same name. The course lectures and materials are all available online. The thing that struck me the most is that those two professors have a relationship where they trust and expect each other to call them on their own BS. Because it's terribly difficult to spot one's own BS.

[Dr Exiled]

Agreed. The problem was with the paucity in the number of security forces and the lack of resources at their disposal. This could have been much, much worse. We were lucky.

My issue is that I don't understand how they didn't see this coming. If they'd had both the manpower and a plan in place they might have diffused the situation with a show of force.

.

I don't understand it either. I think that needs to be investigated. I think they fooled themselves about the nature of the Proud Boys and other backers of the riot. There's pretty good evidence that some law enforcement saw these folks as allies during the summer. It's certainly possible that they just didn't believe that the "blue lives matter" crowd would turn on them. There's one really telling video. A group of rioters approach a barricade with their hands up -- like "hands up, don't shoot." Then they viciously turn on the officers guarding the barricades.

Law enforcement needs to understand that, while the rioters this summer threw objects at them (and should be arrested and punished for that), these "blue lives matter folks" will shoot them dead as part of their "revolution."

Looks like the D.C. Mayor requested the NG prior to yesterday.

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/att/pen ... 15733.html
https://www.military.com/daily-news/202 ... ctory.html
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/politics ... index.html

[Dr Exiled]

I saw another pic that supports the video, she had jumped up onto a window frame, I guess to launch herself through, but I didn't realize that was the last barricade between the evacuated congress people and their security.

My question is this--and I am not military, so I apologize if this is a dumb question, but as a vet, and with military training, I presume, what was her plan in her mind? If she got through, what did she want? She had to have seen the gun pointed at her, I can only presume they were yelling to her and to the group with her at the door to stay out, it seems there were police behind her group, on an angle and behind a staircase leading to a sloping down floor. The guy who shot her seemed to wait until he saw her breaking (?) through an upper window of a heavily barricaded set of doors, then he stepped out and shot one round. He clearly thought there was imminent risk.

I saw another video of a guy literally chasing a Capitol building security person up several flights of stairs, the security guy looked like he had a gun but instead of shooting or even drawing his weapon, he stop-and-start retreated, seemingly on a radio asking for help, alternated with telling the guy to stop, until he got to a group of other police who as a group finally got the guy to stop approaching.

So, back to the woman shot, did she think this was just a game, and she could intimidate the guards back until she, what? confronted congress members? Made them stop the vote? What??? Why would a vet trespass, approach secret service types guarding and hiding elected officials, violate orders to back off, and in general break every law possible in that setting? Why? The few vets I know in real life are quite particular about the process of following rules whether they agree or not, what am I missing here?

On the other hand, is it as simple as that she felt Trump gave her permission to break the law? To use force to get her way?

I'm not a vet, so I can't answer from that standpoint, but there is evidence from her social media that she was part of the QAnon cult. I'm quite sure that she sincerely believed that she was a patriot and part of the second American revolution. Being a true believer overrides the part of the brain responsible for every day common sense. As much as I despise what happened yesterday, I can't help but feel compassion for her. I published a link to a report on vets being singled out for radicalization, often initiated from foreign enemies that want to destabilize the U.S. She was preyed upon by people who understand how brains work, and that propaganda is an effective tool for mobilizing brains: rich folks like Rupert Murdoch, Medal of Freedom winner Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, etc., cynical politicians like Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, and foreign governments that want to weaken or destroy the U.S. Even after an extensive bi-partisan report on what the Russians did during the 2016 election, we still have folks here spreading the lie that all they did was buy a few Facebook ads. Vets are just as susceptible to propaganda as anyone else. As a recent example, the plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer was created through recruitment of active military. We have to stop pretending that the deliberate dissemination of lies is harmless and figure out how to effectively respond, or the next attack on the Capitol will be truly devastating.

Do you agree with Mr. Zakaria that Russia perhaps hacked our minds?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

[Lem]

To answer my own question, see article. It's long, but really helpful.

Pence took lead as Trump initially resisted sending National Guard to Capitol

By Kaitlan Collins, Zachary Cohen, Barbara Starr and Jennifer Hansler, CNN

Updated 11:39 AM ET, Thu January 7, 2021

Washington (CNN)Vice President Mike Pence, not President Donald Trump, helped facilitate the decision to mobilize members of the DC National Guard Wednesday when violence at the US Capitol building started to escalate, according to a source familiar with the move and public comments from top officials.

Trump, who has proven over the past year to be eager to deploy the National Guard when violence breaks out, initially resisted doing so on Capitol Hill Wednesday as a mob of his supporters breached the building, per a source familiar. Pence played a key role in coordinating with the Pentagon about deploying them, and urged them to move faster than they were.

The news raises questions about who was acting as commander in chief on one of America's darkest days, which saw the country's legislature overrun for the first time since the British attacked and burned the building in August 1814.

The Trump administration, earlier this week, said that civilian law enforcement would be tasked with protection of federal facilities but the Department of Defense received requests for additional support from the National Guard Wednesday as the situation became increasingly dangerous, a senior defense official told CNN.

As the chaos unfolded, doubts were raised about whether Trump would order the DC National Guard to respond due to the slowness of the response. Public statements by acting Defense Secretary Christopher Miller and other top officials suggested it was Pence who ultimately approved the decision. Miller's statement Wednesday seems to indicate he did not even speak with Trump, discussing the matter with his deputy instead as sources told CNN the President was reluctant to even denounce the violence being carried out in his name.

Kash Patel, Miller's chief of staff, said in a statement Thursday that Trump and the acting secretary of defense spoke "multiple times this week about the request for National Guard personnel in DC," but did not specify if they were in contact on Wednesday as the situation at the Capitol spiraled out of control.

"During these conversations the President conveyed to the Acting Secretary that he should take any necessary steps to support civilian law enforcement requests in securing the Capitol and federal buildings," Patel added.

Republican House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy sidestepped questions Wednesday night about whether Pence, not Trump, directed the DC National Guard to be activated but suggested the vice president ultimately approved the decision.

Asked by Fox News about reporting that Pence, not the President, approved the activation, McCarthy demurred, but ultimately said: "I know the vice president has been in constant contact with us and also along with security inside the Capitol, I communicated with the vice president early on. It was in regards to getting the National Guard there. He said he will call right now."

The comments appeared to conflict with what White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany said in a tweet hours earlier, when she asserted that Trump "directed" the National Guard to respond to the situation.

Pence spoke with defense secretary and top general

Miller also confirmed that he and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Mark Milley, spoke with Pence, not Trump, on Wednesday afternoon. He also said he was in contact with top congressional lawmakers.

"Chairman Milley and I just spoke separately with the Vice President and with Speaker Pelosi, Leader McConnell, Senator Schumer and Representative Hoyer about the situation at the U.S. Capitol. We have fully activated the D.C. National Guard to assist federal and local law enforcement as they work to peacefully address the situation," he said in a statement.

"We are prepared to provide additional support as necessary and appropriate as requested by local authorities. Our people are sworn to defend the constitution and our democratic form of government and they will act accordingly," he said.

Trump's former military leaders condemn President and others who have interfered with peaceful transfer of power

The National guard was not fully activated until hours after the violent mob descended on the capitol.

As CNN reported previously, the initial agreement for the deployment agreed on Monday -- which was under Pentagon control for this mission -- to support local law enforcement limited their involvement to helping local law enforcement at traffic control points and in the subway.

Under that agreement, National Guard forces did not have orders to provide protection to federal facilities. Top military commanders, including the Joint Chiefs of Staff, were determined to keep active duty military out of that effort and limit the role of the national guard, several defense officials say.

The Pentagon's long-standing focus has been to show that civil law enforcement and state activated national guard are sufficient to control civil unrest.

'A little bit of confusion'

In a statement Wednesday evening, chief Pentagon spokesperson Jonathan Hoffman said that earlier in the week, DC Mayor Muriel Bowser "requested approximately 340 D.C. National Guardsmen to assist D.C. police in preparation for possible protests today."

"That request was approved. Today, the mayor requested the full activation of the D.C. Guard to support local and federal law enforcement as they respond to the situation at the Capitol. That request was approved. There have been no other requests from the D.C. government," he said.
Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy acknowledged there was a "little bit of confusion" with regard to the additional request.

"But as we worked through it, we ultimately made the determination about a half hour later to mobilize the entire DC National Guard. So, this has been incredibly fluid. But I have to go through the Secretary of Defense ultimately to get the final approval to mobilize personnel as well as to conduct operations in cooperation, in coordination with local authorities," he said.

A source familiar with the situation said White House staffers are "horrified" by the violence at the Capitol and are worried there will be more trouble on the streets Wednesday evening.

"He doesn't want to" do more than what he is doing right now, the adviser said.

"If we could throw him to the angry mob, we'd throw him to the angry mob now," the adviser said.

CNN's Pamela Brown contributed to this report.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/06/politics ... index.html

Trump caused this insurrection, had the power to put it down much sooner, and didn't. How is he allowed to remain President?

[Res Ipsa]

I'm not a vet, so I can't answer from that standpoint, but there is evidence from her social media that she was part of the QAnon cult. I'm quite sure that she sincerely believed that she was a patriot and part of the second American revolution. Being a true believer overrides the part of the brain responsible for every day common sense. As much as I despise what happened yesterday, I can't help but feel compassion for her. I published a link to a report on vets being singled out for radicalization, often initiated from foreign enemies that want to destabilize the U.S. She was preyed upon by people who understand how brains work, and that propaganda is an effective tool for mobilizing brains: rich folks like Rupert Murdoch, Medal of Freedom winner Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, etc., cynical politicians like Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, and foreign governments that want to weaken or destroy the U.S. Even after an extensive bi-partisan report on what the Russians did during the 2016 election, we still have folks here spreading the lie that all they did was buy a few Facebook ads. Vets are just as susceptible to propaganda as anyone else. As a recent example, the plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer was created through recruitment of active military. We have to stop pretending that the deliberate dissemination of lies is harmless and figure out how to effectively respond, or the next attack on the Capitol will be truly devastating.

Do you agree with Mr. Zakaria that Russia perhaps hacked our minds?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

So, your'e back, but you've learned nothing. Your affinity for conspiracy theories and repeated spreading of lies about what Russia actually did in 2016 is part of the problem. You actively enable what happened yesterday, whether through ignorance or maliciousness. I have no intention of responding to silly attempts to derail the conversation.

[Morley]

I don't know, Morley. I don't feel like I'm in a position to judge that. I didn't serve, so I'm out of my depth. I just know that our brains are wired in ways that make us all susceptible to cognitive biases, and that we are all susceptible to being taken in by a combination of those biases and manipulation. I read a very good book this fall titled "Calling BS." It's written by a couple of University of Washington professors who teach a course by the same name. The course lectures and materials are all available online. The thing that struck me the most is that those two professors have a relationship where they trust and expect each other to call them on their own BS. Because it's terribly difficult to spot one's own BS.

Thanks for the recommendation, Counselor, I'll take a look at that.

Yes, it is very hard to recognize one's own BS. I have, for years at a time, been reduced to drowning in my own self-generated BS.

.

[Morley]

Trump caused this insurrection, had the power to put it down much sooner, and didn't. How is he allowed to remain President?

Indeed.

[canpakes]

what was her plan in her mind? If she got through, what did she want?

To be first.

These are not folks who are willing to think about the full range of possible consequences of their actions. Rather, they’re driven by a Wal-Mart Black Friday retail crowd mindset that clouds their judgment into believing that their own actions are both righteous and relatively risk free.

[Res Ipsa]

Trump caused this insurrection, had the power to put it down much sooner, and didn't. How is he allowed to remain President?

Indeed.

Because it's hard to remove him quickly, I think. Both houses have pretty complex procedural rules. To get an impeachment done in two weeks would, I suspect, require unanimous consent to speed things up. There are at least 100 House members that would object to any such request, and at least a couple of Senators.

The 25th requires half of the cabinet that Trump picked for their loyalty to turn on Trump. That's a tough requirement. Congress could appoint another body to be responsible for deciding whether to implement the provisions of paragraph 4. in my opinion, that's something they should take a look at after Trump leaves the office.