It's all over but the pouting

[DrW]

Re Chap's post above on brainwashing and mental health in postwar Germany: my wife was raised in Germany in the post war years. Their family were members of the Church and she credits the kindness of a few American LDS soldiers with helping to keep her and her brother alive and sane as young children.

She no longer believes in Joseph Smith or the foundational truth claims of the Church and has significant issues with the leadership in SLC. Nonetheless, in large part due to her "imprinting" experiences as a young child, she still considers herself as a Mormon and feels a fierce loyalty to local Mormon congregations, regardless of where we live or how long we have lived there.

[Some Schmo]

Party of law and order seeks to abolish Legislative branch of government.

Yeah, nothing the GOP says about themselves is true. They are not fiscally conservative. They are not for law and order. They do not respect the military. They don't care about the constitution. These "government leaders" don't even want to govern.

You have to watch what they do; there's no point listening to what they say.

[Some Schmo]

She no longer believes in Joseph Smith or the foundational truth claims of the Church and has significant issues with the leadership in SLC. Nonetheless, from her imprinting experiences as a young child, she still considers herself as a Mormon and feels a fierce loyalty to local Mormon congregations, regardless of where we live or how long we have lived there.

It's sad when the religion people belong to gets the credit for the innate decency of its adherents.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Speaking of religions... Qanon shaman declares he was duped!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/qanon-sha ... -was-duped

Referring to his client as “the guy with the horns and the fur,” attorney Al Watkins told the St. Louis NBC News affiliate KSDK: “[Chansley] regrets very, very much having not just been duped by the president, but by being in a position where he allowed that duping to put him in a position to make decisions he should not have made.” Chansley was arrested days after the riot, and last week he begged Trump for a pardon—but it never came.

r/leopardsatemyface

- Doc

[DrW]

She no longer believes in Joseph Smith or the foundational truth claims of the Church and has significant issues with the leadership in SLC. Nonetheless, from her imprinting experiences as a young child, she still considers herself as a Mormon and feels a fierce loyalty to local Mormon congregations, regardless of where we live or how long we have lived there.

It's sad when the religion people belong to gets the credit for the innate decency of its adherents.

I agree with you. She does not see it that way. With her it seems to be something almost innate and purely emotional now. Rationally she knows that the LDS foundational truth claims are nonsense, so fundamentally we are both agnostic. The situation has not been a problem for us however, mainly because we agreed, early on, that it was to be "family first, no matter what."

[Chap]

She no longer believes in Joseph Smith or the foundational truth claims of the Church and has significant issues with the leadership in SLC. Nonetheless, from her imprinting experiences as a young child, she still considers herself as a Mormon and feels a fierce loyalty to local Mormon congregations, regardless of where we live or how long we have lived there.

It's sad when the religion people belong to gets the credit for the innate decency of its adherents.

I agree with you. She does not see it that way. With her it seems to be something almost innate and purely emotional now. Rationally she knows that the LDS foundational truth claims are nonsense, so fundamentally we are both agnostic. The situation has not been a problem for us however, mainly because we agreed, early on, that it was to be "family first, no matter what."

I have always found it hard to blame people for still having a degree of attachment to the religion their parents brought them up in - that process tends to build in deep and involuntary senses of affinity that are so deeply woven into an individual's identity that it is hard to free oneself - even if one wants to, which cannot be assumed.

I am rationally sure that the basic claims of the religion I was brought up in are untrue. But I am lucky: its religious ministers are on the whole literate and tolerant, and don't tend to 'make windows into men's souls'. The architecture is not bad either, and the music still has a deep hold on me. The language of its liturgy has worked itself into my memory so that I can just let potions of it 'replay' if the mood takes me. So I don't think I wholly wasted my time as an active church member. Others, of course, may look back with very different feelings.

[MeDotOrg]

The language of its liturgy has worked itself into my memory so that I can just let potions of it 'replay' if the mood takes me.

I have not spent any time in a Church service since I was a teenager. Weddings and funerals mostly. Come to think of it, I've probably gone to more Yom Kippur services with Jewish friends than I have gone to Christian ceremonies.

But, like you, many words and phrases are etched in my heart and mind. I can still recite most of the Nicean creed from memory after half a century. When I hear Christmas carolers it still warms my heart in a special way.

What is the essense of religion when you boil away the doctrine? "My religion is kindess", said the Dali Lama.

[Some Schmo]

I have always found it hard to blame people for still having a degree of attachment to the religion their parents brought them up in - that process tends to build in deep and involuntary senses of affinity that are so deeply woven into an individual's identity that it is hard to free oneself - even if one wants to, which cannot be assumed.

I am rationally sure that the basic claims of the religion I was brought up in are untrue. But I am lucky: its religious ministers are on the whole literate and tolerant, and don't tend to 'make windows into men's souls'. The architecture is not bad either, and the music still has a deep hold on me. The language of its liturgy has worked itself into my memory so that I can just let potions of it 'replay' if the mood takes me. So I don't think I wholly wasted my time as an active church member. Others, of course, may look back with very different feelings.

Yeah, I hear you, and I have to admit that I have retained certain things from my religious youth. For instance, I'm still moved by the Christmas season, including some of the more religious music. The month of December holds very strong feelings for me from my youth, and I have no desire to jettison that stuff, because they contain some of my best memories of home and family.

And if I'm honest, I liked many of the conversations I had in church. They provided the spark of interest in philosophical ideas. Just because where they landed was BS didn't mean they weren't asking some good questions.

[Some Schmo]

But, like you, many words and phrases are etched in my heart and mind. I can still recite most of the Nicean creed from memory after half a century. When I hear Christmas carolers it still warms my heart in a special way.

I heard it postulated that atheists know the religion of their youth better than anyone, because they've studied it enough to realize it's BS. I think there's some truth to that.

What is the essense of religion when you boil away the doctrine? "My religion is kindess", said the Dali Lama.

I'd only quibble with that to say "my spirituality is kindness" instead. Religion is dogma. Spirituality is practice/action.

That's how I think of them, anyway.

[Chap]

The language of its liturgy has worked itself into my memory so that I can just let potions of it 'replay' if the mood takes me.

I hope people realise I really meant 'portions'. There weren't any potions in the church of my childhood.



Still, I'm glad to see that I struck a few chords in my post.