My dillema - Raising my daughter correctly

[_Ray A]

My daughter is 14 and she is heavily involved in our ward. EFY, YM/YW, friends, activities, seminary, the whole constant barrage of Mormon elitism. I had to practically force her to go to another church with one of her friends, to expand her horizons. Attending another church was viewed with suspicion by her Mormon friends. All I can say is, I wish I had the chance that you have, with the new knowledge I've gained of the New Mormon history over the past two years. I'm scared for the future of my kids in this church. I had my home teacher over today grilling my kids about gospel principles, seriously grilling them, and I realized that hometeaching is being used now as a control mechanism, not really like it used to be back in the 60s where you went to help the families.

Do what you can to get her out now. You'll only regret it in the future if you don't.

Sounds to me like this is a cultural thing. It most certainly does not happen in the church where I am. But if this is the sort of thing you face in America, then I can see the problem.

[_Ray A]

by the way, DV, do you respect your daughter's choice of lifestyle? If it makes her happy, do you respect that?

[_moksha]

You sound like a social Mormon to me. You don't believe in all of it, but are just doing it for family and friends.

Most of my friends are non-mormon and I am certainly not doing it for family. Going to the trouble of going to Church is a lot of work. I do it for my spiritual needs. Socially, The Mormon Church does not have fellowshipping down as well as other religions.

[_Ray A]

You sound like a social Mormon to me. You don't believe in all of it, but are just doing it for family and friends.

by the way, I don't think Moksha needs to apologise for anything. He's been very fair in judgement, and I believe a peacemaker. Because he doesn't fit the stereotypical Mormon, the one exmos like to throw darts at, I think he represents what Mormonism can do at the humanitarian and compassionate level. Why would you want him to be either/or? To think in black and white. In his heart he obviously believes, and it goes beyond Sunday School lessons. I don't know, but some of you exmos just don't "get it".

[_Roger Morrison]

Hi VR, i think you've received some good advice here. And, some rather reactionary fear mongering and castigations. TD, Jersey Girl, Ray and Moksha (even Coggins, in his unique way :-) come to mind in the first group...

I respectfully suggest, that YOUR daughter might have the "best-of-both-worlds". I think your concern for age 8 baptism might be a bit premature. I also suggest YOU look at what YOU will contribute to her nurturing in the nect 7 years.

How smart are YOU? How well do YOU cope? How perceptive, intuitive, informed, sensitive, affectionate, accomodating are YOU as a family member? Jersey Girl introduced, as i read her posts, child development and family relations to be a good ongoing study for YOU/EVERYONE???

Like that old LDS hymn suggests: "...do what's right, you have no need to fear..." Go with the flow, but use both oars, Bro... Warm regards, Roger

[_gramps]

My wife is still LDS, I do not attend. Although I have a cordial and small social relationship with the Mormons my wife attends church with, I am starting to become uneasy at the thought of my one year old daughter attending the indoctrination and utter brainwashing of primary. Its down the road but not upon me yet. I am left with two tasks that would give me the desired result:

1. Convince my wife to leave the cult
2. Convince my wife that having our daughter attend primary will dammage her ability to discern what real truth is.

I love my wife dearly but this issue is unnerving. The last thing I want is my daughter to become locked in the clutches of the cult but I am afraid my wife believes I have no say in this.

What would you do?

Hi, Vegas.

It's a tough call.

On the one hand, if I had young kids going to church each Sunday, learning some of the stuff they learn and singing some of the stuff they sing and bearing their "testimonies" on Fast Sunday, I would be really unhappy and frustrated. There are so many better things a child could be learning and enjoying with his/her father and mother on Sundays than worshiping a guy who got hung on a cross or tree or whatever. And taking the bread and water as symbols of his flesh and blood. That's really weird. My kids won't be learning any of that stuff, for sure.

On the other hand, my son is growing up in Japan and I think there isn't a chance in hell that he will ever be a Christian of any sort. That problem solved, at any rate. You, of course, are with your wife and should be raising the kids together, but you apparently don't feel like you have any say in how much influence the church will have on your kids.

That part I don't get. Wouldn't it be a pretty fair deal if she goes to church once or twice a month with her mom and on the other two weeks of the month, you do some other activities with her outside of church? As she gets older, then she can decide if she wants to go to church or do other things on Sundays. Or is your wife going to force her to church every Sunday? If you have no say, then something seems amiss.

But, I wouldn't force it so far that everything crumbles and you are left with divorce proceedings, alimony, etc. If it is worth it to you to keep your family together at all costs, then you just may have to suck it up and let things proceed and hope for the best.

But, I guess, I would push the envelope as far as possible until serious warning signs and then not go any further.

It depends on what is most important. Your daughter may love church and you'll have no chance to keep her from it, whatever you do. She also may hate it as she gets older and she will see through the nonsense with your help and answers to her questions.

Some of the future you won't be able to control and will have to just sit back and watch, as it were.

All the best to you. I know it would probably drive me to serious drinking. I'm sure you will handle it much better than I would. It would be nice to think that maybe we can all still be on these boards and can check in with each other and see how things are going 20 years from now. Wouldn't that be fascinating?

[_truth dancer]

Hi A man...

Here's one thing I wonder. If the church's brainwashing is so incredibly effective, then how did VegasRefugee and the rest of you mannage to see through it? Is the church really that hard to "escape" from? Is it really that dangerous?

This is the phenomenon that fascinates me.

Why do some believe and some do not. I'm convinced it is not just a choice.

More and more scientists are discovering the neurology of belief... the actual hardwiring that occurs in our brain so we can make sense of the world. The question becomes, why can some "undo" the hardwiring and some cannot?

The answer is complex but completely intriguing to me. Absolutely the early teachings and reinforcment of those teachings are crucial in forming belief (hence the primary brainwashing), but why can some leave and
some can't? I think in part it has to do with awareness, level of discomfort/comfort, depth and expanded understanding of others, need for belief, social benefits, personal traits, temperment, knowledge, societal pressure, brain function, sensory ability and sensitivity, etc.

This totally FASCINATES me! :-)

~dancer~

[_Bond...James Bond]

Here's one thing I wonder. If the church's brainwashing is so incredibly effective, then how did VegasRefugee and the rest of you mannage to see through it? Is the church really that hard to "escape" from? Is it really that dangerous? I can understand a feeling of frustration and confusion if you decide that another faith (or not faith) is correct, but I really think this whole cult business is blowing things way out of proportion. Certainly some church members are a bit too zealous for my tastes, but ultiately I think the church only has as much power as you give it.

Brainwashing, indoctrination, preaching etc. They're all have the same purpose which is to get someone to believe something. It's easy to get someone to belief something when it's the only message they're hearing.

The problem is it isn't the Dark Ages, or the Middle Ages, or 1846 either. We're living in an INFORMATION AGE. Today you get the one message at church, but you can also get thousands of books from ebay, or you can go online to thousands of websites, or you can sit on a message board and debate these things. The world has shrunk to nothing. You can talk with people of every religious persuasion if you have the net.

I would also like to point out more people going to college. Sure you can go to BYU, but the problem is people are going to a history class or an archaeology class right after theology class. Somewhere along the line you're not going to hear the party line of your religion. That goes for all religions, not just Mormonism.

Yet there are always people who don't hear the music. Or they listen but don't hear.

Bond

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

Here's one thing I wonder. If the church's brainwashing is so incredibly effective, then how did VegasRefugee and the rest of you mannage to see through it? Is the church really that hard to "escape" from? Is it really that dangerous? I can understand a feeling of frustration and confusion if you decide that another faith (or not faith) is correct, but I really think this whole cult business is blowing things way out of proportion. Certainly some church members are a bit too zealous for my tastes, but ultiately I think the church only has as much power as you give it.

Brainwashing, indoctrination, preaching etc. They're all have the same purpose which is to get someone to believe something. It's easy to get someone to belief something when it's the only message they're hearing.

The problem is it isn't the Dark Ages, or the Middle Ages, or 1846 either. We're living in an INFORMATION AGE. Today you get the one message at church, but you can also get thousands of books from ebay, or you can go online to thousands of websites, or you can sit on a message board and debate these things. The world has shrunk to nothing. You can talk with people of every religious persuasion if you have the net.

I would also like to point out more people going to college. Sure you can go to BYU, but the problem is people are going to a history class or an archaeology class right after theology class. Somewhere along the line you're not going to hear the party line of your religion. That goes for all religions, not just Mormonism.

Yet there are always people who don't hear the music. Or they listen but don't hear.

Bond

I am sorry to be such a CHEERLEADER but I do througly enjoy reading your posts...they make me smile..
And you get right to the point of the whole matter very nicely....
And you are rigth about people listening and not hearing......I like that party line of your religion....so true

[_Yoda]

I had my home teacher over today grilling my kids about gospel principles, seriously grilling them, and I realized that hometeaching is being used now as a control mechanism, not really like it used to be back in the 60s where you went to help the families.

Hi DV!

When I read this, this really concerned me. I can relate to it, because we had a Home Teacher who was doing something similar to our kids when he came over. It was making them, not to mention me, extremely uncomfortable.

My husband went to the High Priest group leader, and had us reassigned to another Home Teacher.

This Home Teacher was WAY out of line. His purpose is to ask about and see to the needs of the family, and give the assigned lesson out of the Ensign.