Some thoughts on excommunication

[_Sam Harris]

The practice of excommunication is about as vile and un-Christlike a thing a church can do.

Make sure your friend tells St. Paul that when he sees him. Galatians 5:12

Many people say that the Mormon church is a benign institution that helps families. I disagree.

Make sure your friend brings this to Jesus' attention. Matt 10:34-36.

The simple truth of the matter is that the Lord's "Church" cuts off people who are guilty of moral sins, and the consequence is that members of families might be set against each other. There are plenty of fraternal organizations you can join, including "churches" who don't do that. Tell your friend to find security in them and to quit condemning us who follow the Master.

"[H]e that loseth his life for my sake shall find it." Matt 10:40. I don't think that mandate implies that self-indulgence meets the obligation to love God first and our neighbor second.

P

Plutarch, stop being asenine. Wishing someone would castrate themselves, yet not taking any action against them is not the same as kicking someone out of a church and instructing those who are still members to shun said person. It sickens me, Mormons claim to be Christians, yet will take the Bible out of context any chance they get. That's why you need the escape clause "so long as its correctly translated". The Bible shot your faith out of the water with regards to your rediculous dietary restrictions, the priesthood ban, and your priesthood in general. All your leaders did was give the book a cursory elementary reading, and took from it what they wanted to. How low of you to use the Bible to justify your church's behavior. The Catholic church doesn't even excommunicate people like your church does anymore. Goodness! Can you go any lower?

Goodness you must eschew anything other than your triple, man. Again you have taken scripture out of context. Jesus was stating in Matt 10:34-36 that his radical message would surely cause problems for those people who followed him. He was born into a time when Mosaic law had been corrupted into the "Traditon of the Elders", in other words, legalism. People weren't comfortable with a new law, because it had been ingrained in them that the old one, and nitpicking through it at that would gain them God's favor. But that was never the intent of Mosaic law. And verse 40, talks about sacrifice, not necessarily literal death, but a life not lived for selfish aims. I'm sure you know this, but in your need to defecate upon anything that doesn't agree with your elementary, myopic, and altogether naïve view of every faith but your own, you missed a few points.

[_Sam Harris]

The practice of excommunication is about as vile and un-Christlike a thing a church can do.

Make sure your friend tells St. Paul that when he sees him. Galatians 5:12

Many people say that the Mormon church is a benign institution that helps families. I disagree.

Make sure your friend brings this to Jesus' attention. Matt 10:34-36.

The simple truth of the matter is that the Lord's "Church" cuts off people who are guilty of moral sins, and the consequence is that members of families might be set against each other. There are plenty of fraternal organizations you can join, including "churches" who don't do that. Tell your friend to find security in them and to quit condemning us who follow the Master.

P

I'm never sure what to make of these kinds of posts. How anyone can just sneer at others' pain is beyond me.

I'm sure Plutarch just sets that up on his mantle of righteousness right next to lying for the lord, prejudice, and assuming that he's spiritually superior to everyone else on the planet who is not of his faith.

[_Mercury]

The practice of excommunication is about as vile and un-Christlike a thing a church can do.

Make sure your friend tells St. Paul that when he sees him. Galatians 5:12

Many people say that the Mormon church is a benign institution that helps families. I disagree.

Make sure your friend brings this to Jesus' attention. Matt 10:34-36.

The simple truth of the matter is that the Lord's "Church" cuts off people who are guilty of moral sins, and the consequence is that members of families might be set against each other. There are plenty of fraternal organizations you can join, including "churches" who don't do that. Tell your friend to find security in them and to quit condemning us who follow the Master.

P

I'm never sure what to make of these kinds of posts. How anyone can just sneer at others' pain is beyond me.

Its the point of excommunication to turn the froup against an individual in order to bring pride upon the group and at the same time destroy dissent in the ranks...among othjer things.

On a personal level its a weapon used against those who rock the boat and a way to do ultimate dammage to those families others see as different from their own.

[_Jason Bourne]

The practice of excommunication is about as vile and un-Christlike a thing a church can do.

Make sure your friend tells St. Paul that when he sees him. Galatians 5:12

Many people say that the Mormon church is a benign institution that helps families. I disagree.

Make sure your friend brings this to Jesus' attention. Matt 10:34-36.

The simple truth of the matter is that the Lord's "Church" cuts off people who are guilty of moral sins, and the consequence is that members of families might be set against each other. There are plenty of fraternal organizations you can join, including "churches" who don't do that. Tell your friend to find security in them and to quit condemning us who follow the Master.

"[H]e that loseth his life for my sake shall find it." Matt 10:40. I don't think that mandate implies that self-indulgence meets the obligation to love God first and our neighbor second.

P

I believe one of the biggest problems with Church Discipline is that it is often applied inconsistently and randomly. Some guidance is provided in the GHBI but so much is left to the local authorities and their application varies based on personalities as well as how authoritarian the leader may tend to be. I have seen it used irrationally where some have been excommunicated for one offense and others have gotten off. Oh I know, that supposedly the spirit is to guide those making the decision but you know as well as I often it is just what the leader thinks ought to be done.

The other issue is it is humiliating to an unnecessary level. Stake Councils that are supposed to be secret and confidential are attended by the SP, his counselors, Secretary, Clerk, and 12 HCs. 17 people!!! The poor slob in the DC has to be paraded before and questioned by all of these yet the SP makes the decision. And you can be sure that there is little confidence kept with so many involved.

My personal view is excommunication rarely serves any purpose. There are better ways to call to repentance. It marks the ex'd member with major stigma and makes is difficult for the person to really be part of the flock in any comfortable sense. Statistically those ex'd rarely return. If it is ever used it should be sparingly and only in the most egregious cases.

[_truth dancer]

My observation, limited though it may be, is that inactive folks who may be engaged in all sorts of "sin," are never excommunicated but active folks who "sin" are brought before a court.

I'm guessing excommunication will be a thing of the past in the very near future, now with the laws the way they are, folks have the option of just departing.

I think it is a great thing.

~dancer~