Significant Questions of Belief

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_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Hope you get well soon, Liz. : )


Thanks, Scratchy! :) I'm back at work today. I'm still weak, but better than I was over the weekend.

In answer to the questions, here are my responses:

1. Does God possess a complete knowledge of the future?

Not exactly. I believe that since God is God, he can anticipate the potential outcome of every choice we can presumably make in our lives. That's why He can help us out of messes when we ask. However, the choices are ours to make. I don't buy the "it all happened this way for a reason" logic. There are times when we, through our own choosing have made mistakes in our lives. The fact that we were able to atone for our mistakes, and "get back on the right track" does not mean that God intended, or knew that we were going to slip up at that moment. Did he know what the outcome would be if we messed up? Sure. Could we have chosen a different path? Yes.

2. Was the flood of Noah local or global? (A favorite topic of Harmony's)

When we read of the account, we think of it as global. However, I think it very well could have been a local flood that was very encompassing for those accounting it.

3. Was Christ both fully God and fully human during his ministry or did he relinquish his divinity for a season?

Fully God.

4. Are only the predestined saved or do all people have a potential for full salvation? (This kind of ties in to the knowledge of the future subject)

All people have a potential for full salvation. (See my answer to Question #1)

5. Do men and women enjoy eternal security from the moment of their spiritual rebirth or must they endure faithfully to the end to have a hope of eternal life?

I think that they enjoy an eternal security upon death. They are reunited with family members who passed away before them

6. What happens to babies who die?

They are immediately exhalted.

7. The fate of the unevangelized.

They will have the opportunity to learn the gospel, and be judged according to their hearts.

8. Is baptism essential to salvation and to whom should it be administered - infants or mature believers?

Baptism is a covenant essential to salvation. However, if someone dies before being baptised, it is something which can be taken care of later. There is no need for infants to be baptized.

9. Should women serve in certain ministerial capacities?

Yes. Women can be just as effective speakers, missionaries, and administrators as men can.

10. Does man play a role in his own salvation beyond an initial confession of Christ as Savior? What is the meaning and place of works?

I think that we have to "put our money where our mouths are". You can't simply confess to believing in Jesus, and then not live his teachings.

11. Is man a child of God or a mere creation of God? What are the psycological effects of each of these views?

I believe that we are God's children. However, I don't think there is a big difference between saying, "I am a creation of God, and I am a child of God." When you create something, you cherish it. It's yours.

12. Should wives submit to their husbands and if so how and in what way?

I think that marriage should be an equal partnership and that both husband and wife should rely on each other's counsel in different circumstances. There are things that my husband has a more thorough knowledge about, and I trust his judgement, and ask for his counsel concerning those things. There are areas where my expertise is more refined, and he asks for my counsel in those situations.
Last edited by _Yoda on Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

liz3564 wrote:Thanks, Scratchy! :) I'm back at work today. I'm still weak, but better than I was over the weekend.


Sorry to hear you've been ill. We've had the flu running through our house (I haven't had it, yet, but just waiting my turn).

In answer to the questions, here are my responses:

1. Does God possess a complete knowledge of the future?

Not exactly. I believe that since God is God, he can anticipate the potential outcome of every choice we can presumably make in our lives. That's why He can help us out of messes when we ask. However, the choices are ours to make. I don't buy the "it all happened this way for a reason" logic. There are times when we, through our own choosing have made mistakes in our lives. The fact that we were able to atone for our mistakes, and "get back on the right track" does not mean that God intended, or knew that we were going to slip up at that moment. Did he know what the outcome would be if we messed up? Sure. Could we have chosen a different path? Yes.


That seems a reasonable approach and is in line with the more limited God of LDS theology.

2. Was the flood of Noah local or global? (A favorite topic of Harmony's)

When we read of the account, we think of it as global. However, I think it very well could have been a local flood that was very encompassing for those accounting it.


I wonder if it's OK to believe in the flood as metaphorical.

3. Was Christ both fully God and fully human during his ministry or did he relinquish his divinity for a season?

Fully God.


I think LDS doctrine is pretty clear on this.

4. Are only the predestined saved or do all people have a potential for full salvation? (This kind of ties in to the knowledge of the future subject)

All people have a potential for full salvation. (See my answer to Question #1)


I always thought that predestination is the only reasonably conclusion to the idea of salvation by grace alone. If nothing we do is involved in our salvation, then it is God's determination whether or not we're saved. And if he is all-knowing (and not the more limited God of LDS theology), he already knows whom He will save. Thus, predestination.

5. Do men and women enjoy eternal security from the moment of their spiritual rebirth or must they endure faithfully to the end to have a hope of eternal life?

I think that they enjoy an eternal security upon death. They are reunited with family members who passed away before them.


I always believed that rather than working one's way to heaven, one becomes saved at baptism, or entry into the covenant with God, but one can lose that salvation by turning one's back on God and His covenant.

6. What happens to babies who die?

They are immediately exhalted.


I've always thought that the Book of Mormon is inconsistent about this teaching. On the one hand, it denies Original Sin and says that infants are innocent, but on the other, it says that when infants die, the Atonement makes up for their imperfection (dang, I'm going to have to look that one up).

7. The fate of the unevangelized.

They will have the opportunity to learn the gospel, and be judged according to their hearts.


This is one of the beliefs I still carry from my Mormon days. If there is a God, I am sure He will give all His children an opportunity to be saved.

8. Is baptism essential to salvation and to whom should it be administered - infants or mature believers?

Baptism is a covenant essential to salvation. However, if someone dies before being baptised, it is something which can be taken care of later. There is no need for infants to be baptized.


Again, I think the Book of Mormon is inconsistent on the innocence of children.

9. Should women serve in certain ministerial capacities?

Yes. Women can be just as effective speakers, missionaries, and administrators as men can.


Speaking from experience, some of my best decisions as a church leader were made when I took my wife's advice. :-)

10. Does man play a role in his own salvation beyond an initial confession of Christ as Savior? What is the meaning and place of works?

I think that we have to "put our money where our mouths are". You can't simply confess to believing in Jesus, and then not live his teachings.


I believe this as well. I think there's a happy medium between all works and all grace, and it's reflected in the idea expressed in the Bible Dictionary to the effect that it is grace that allows us to maintain the works. So, they're two sides of the same coin. Yesterday in testimony meeting, we sang "In Humility, Our Savior," and I noticed the line "then when we have proven worthy of thy sacrifice divine," and it struck me that we will never be "worthy" of the Atonement. The great thing about the Atonement is that we don't really deserve it. Of course, I'm still trying to work out if I even believe in Christ anymore. I think so, but I'm not sure. Maybe God will help my unbelief.

11. Is man a child of God or a mere creation of God? What are the psycological effects of each of these views?

I believe that we are God's children. However, I don't think there is a big difference between saying, "I am a creation of God, and I am a child of God." When you create something, you cherish it. It's yours.


Paul seems to view us as mere creations, much like jars of clay. But Jesus seems to have preferred a more intimate Father/child relationship. I'm going with Jesus on this one.

12. Should wives submit to their husbands and if so how and in what way?

I think that marriage should be an equal partnership and that both husband and wife should rely on each other's counsel in different circumstances. There are things that my husband has a more thorough knowledge about, and I trust his judgement, and ask for his counsel concerning those things. There are areas where my expertise is more refined, and he asks for my counsel in those situations.


Amen to that. If I told my wife to submit, she'd probably fall over laughing.

Just this hopeful agnostic's 2 cents.
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Thanks for your answers, Runtu! :)

It's scary how much we agree on issues! ;)
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Re: Significant Questions of Belief

Post by _Bond...James Bond »

liz3564 wrote:
1. Does God possess a complete knowledge of the future?


No clue. If he does I hope he doesn't tell me, cause it would really take the fun out of the human experience.

2. Was the flood of Noah local or global? (A favorite topic of Harmony's)


in my opinion it is a sensationalized myth based on flood stories that should serve as an allegory. Sadly too many people take it literally.

3. Was Christ both fully God and fully human during his ministry or did he relinquish his divinity for a season?


He was fully human. While the Bible portrays him as a great guy with a great message, I don't think he was the Son of God.

4. Are only the predestined saved or do all people have a potential for full salvation? (This kind of ties in to the knowledge of the future subject)


No clue on any of that.

5. Do men and women enjoy eternal security from the moment of their spiritual rebirth or must they endure faithfully to the end to have a hope of eternal life?


No clue.

6. what happens to babies who die?


They die. If there's an afterlife, you figure babies would automatically go there as a result of having committed no major crimes during their lifetime.

7. The fate of the unevangelized.


No clue, but they're not bothered by irritating missionaries of any sort.

8. Is baptism essntial to salvation and to whom should it be administered - infants or mature believers?


Living a good life would be the key to salvation (if such a thing exists). Good people existed in places and times when people didn't have access to baptism. Are they left out in the rain?

9. Should women serve in certain ministerial capasities?


Yes

10. Does man play a role in his own salvation beyond an initial confession of Christ as Savior? What is the meaning and place of works?


Doing good really helps in this life. If there's an afterlife you figure it helps there too if this life has anything to do with that life (if that life exists of course).

11. Is man a child of God or a mere creation of God? What are the psycological effects of each of these views?


We evolved from primates of some sort. We think we're of God in someway to boost our collective egos. We need to get over ourselves.

12. Should wives submit to their husbands and if so how and in what way?


Hell no!
Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
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Mrs. Gaz :-)

Post by _Roger Morrison »


Quote:
12. Should wives submit to their husbands and if so how and in what way?


Gaz (I like to call him Mike) asked me to answer this question. Im his wife, Carrie.
My sarcastic side would answer, "No" and be done with it. But as I think about the question and our 14 years together, I have and do submit to his council. We usually discuss and decide things together. But there are those times when I'm dealing with a sibling issue or a friend issue and I do go to him for council. As far as yielding to his power or control, it's not in my nature to submit. Nor is it in his nature to demand.


Carrie, Nice to read You! Y'all sound well matched! Much happiness!! Warm regards, Roger
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Post by _Gazelam »

Thanks for the comment Roger, she was very worried someone would "Flame" her for her post. I'll let her know you said Hi. : )
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Gazelam wrote:Thanks for the comment Roger, she was very worried someone would "Flame" her for her post. I'll let her know you said Hi. : )


No way, Gaz! If anyone tried to flame her, I would beat them up! LOL

Carrie is great! She has you well trained. ;)
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Re: Continuation

Post by _harmony »

12. Should wives submit to their husbands and if so how and in what way?


Gaz (I like to call him Mike) asked me to answer this question. Im his wife, Carrie.
My sarcastic side would answer, "No" and be done with it. But as I think about the question and our 14 years together, I have and do submit to his council. We usually discuss and decide things together. But there are those times when I'm dealing with a sibling issue or a friend issue and I do go to him for council. As far as yielding to his power or control, it's not in my nature to submit. Nor is it in his nature to demand.


Should husbands submit to their wives' counsel? At times when he's dealing with a sibling issue or a friend issue, does he go to you for counsel? Because he should, if he values your opinion and your wisdom.
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Post by _Sam Harris »

My half a cent:

1. Does God possess a complete knowledge of the future?

I think so. I like to see it in terms of the way it was put in Conversations With God. It's ok...God knows that ultimately it's gonna be ok, it's ok now, but we don't know that.

2. Was the flood of Noah local or global? (A favorite topic of Harmony's)

I think it was local, but because the people in that region didn't know of what existed on the other side of the world, it was seen as global.

3. Was Christ both fully God and fully human during his ministry or did he relinquish his divinity for a season?

I think he gave up his divinity. Spong writes of a kind of adoptionism initially referenced in the Pauline epistles.

4. Are only the predestined saved or do all people have a potential for full salvation? (This kind of ties in to the knowledge of the future subject)

I think that all people have a potential for full salvation. Even if God knows our fate, that doesn't mean that it was chosen for us. If you can see a tragedy happening in the future, and it comes true, does that mean you made it happen? I'm curious, because I dreamed someone's death, and it came true...

5. Do men and women enjoy eternal security from the moment of their spiritual rebirth or must they endure faithfully to the end to have a hope of eternal life?

I think that depends on how you view life. If in your spiritual rebirth you are not "tied" to "material" things, then you might achieve a semblance of peace. I put the words tied and material in quotation marks, because those words can mean many things in this sense.

6. what happens to babies who die?

They go to heaven, why wouldn't they? Innocence incarnate, why would they have to be tied down by grown human suppositions

7. The fate of the unevangelized.

Judged according to what they know

8. Is baptism essntial to salvation and to whom should it be administered - infants or mature believers?

It's a ritual that has meaning for those who partake in it, but should not be used to judge others harshly. Even my church teaches this

9. Should women serve in certain ministerial capasities?

Hell yeah! And we need a female Pope.

10. Does man play a role in his own salvation beyond an initial confession of Christ as Savior? What is the meaning and place of works?

If that man wants to have a meaningful life, he'd better. What's the deal with this idea about works, people place too much emphasis on what they do. There are consequences for every action, for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction, but that doesn't mean we're supposed to be storing Chuck-e-Cheese coins or brownie points over what we do each day. Just live from your heart, why is that so hard?

11. Is man a child of God or a mere creation of God? What are the psycological effects of each of these views?

We are God. We are pieces of the whole, threads in the tapestry. We're just too self-degrading to recognize this.

12. Should wives submit to their husbands and if so how and in what way?

I'll submit...but only in bed, and you'd better make it worth my while.
Last edited by consiglieri on Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
_Sam Harris
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Post by _Sam Harris »

Fortigurn wrote:
Sono_hito wrote:cool, more reading to do, thanks!


You're welcome.


Yeah, ya do rock, man. Very thorough and interesting your post on the flood stories.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
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