wenglund wrote:My experience in the Church as a male, has given me a diametrically opposite view of women in relation to men than the OP. Rather than viewing women as inferior, I grew up putting them on a pedestal. To me, they seemed near angelic even as humans, and something that was to be treasured and held in respectful awe. In my mind their beauty and grace warmed and brightened whatever rooms ni which they were present, and the tenderness of their hearts dried many a tear and was like a comforting blanket wrapped around those in need. I envied their seemingly innate aptitude for spirituality and faith, and their admirable work ethic, which made them natural leaders without need of calling or priesthood powers.
What made things difficult for me, though, after leaving home and going out into the world, so to speak, was in learning that not all women lived up to the ideal I had been raised with in the Church, and some even fell well short of those expectations. It then became a matter of me adjusting down my perception of women to a more reasonable and less lofty level. In other words, I started to see women as not unlike me and other men in terms of human weaknesses and frailties.
Anyway, I find it fascinating that two people can be raised in the same Church, yet derive entirely opposing's perceptions of woman and men. To me, this suggests less about what the Church has presented, and more about how we each diversely interpret (or misinterpret) what the Church has presented.
So, rather than making a general call to abandon the Church, I think it may be more apt to advise reconsideration of certain personal perceptions.
wenglund wrote:My experience in the Church as a male, has given me a diametrically opposite view of women in relation to men than the OP. Rather than viewing women as inferior, I grew up putting them on a pedestal. To me, they seemed near angelic even as humans, and something that was to be treasured and held in respectful awe. In my mind their beauty and grace warmed and brightened whatever rooms ni which they were present, and the tenderness of their hearts dried many a tear and was like a comforting blanket wrapped around those in need. I envied their seemingly innate aptitude for spirituality and faith, and their admirable work ethic, which made them natural leaders without need of calling or priesthood powers.
What made things difficult for me, though, after leaving home and going out into the world, so to speak, was in learning that not all women lived up to the ideal I had been raised with in the Church, and some even fell well short of those expectations. It then became a matter of me adjusting down my perception of women to a more reasonable and less lofty level. In other words, I started to see women as not unlike me and other men in terms of human weaknesses and frailties.
Anyway, I find it fascinating that two people can be raised in the same Church, yet derive entirely opposing's perceptions of woman and men. To me, this suggests less about what the Church has presented, and more about how we each diversely interpret (or misinterpret) what the Church has presented.
So, rather than making a general call to abandon the Church, I think it may be more apt to advise reconsideration of certain personal perceptions.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Has it occurred to you that KA's perception might be more accurate than yours? Might it behoove you to reconsider your perceptions? I'm willing to reconsider mine.
beastie wrote:Sexist societies always put women on pedestals. It's how it works.
Quite right. It is what Freud referred to as the "Madonna-Whore Complex." The attitude towards women within the LDS Church is one manifestation among many of the "all or nothing" way of thinking that is so prevalent in Mormonism. What Wade seems not to realize is that his viewing of females as "angelic", while positive in a sense, is nonetheless dehumanizing.
Is the justification of why women have to wear burkas in some muslim countries that they are so highly prized, so highly valued, by "their" men, that they must be protected from the wandering eyes of strangers?
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Sethbag wrote:Is the justification of why women have to wear burkas in some Muslim countries that they are so highly prized, so highly valued, by "their" men, that they must be protected from the wandering eyes of strangers?
It must also create some dependencies when you keep bumping into things because your eyesight is partially obscured. These nearly blinded women would easily fall off their pedestals. Much better to hobble them with high heels.
KimberlyAnn wrote:The licked cupcakes in the chastity lesson always represented females. In Young Women's, the cupcakes represented us - we didn't want to be a licked cupcake. No one wants a cupcake licked by someone else.
Ok, so the girls are taught that they have a burden of chastity.
In Young Men's, the cupcakes also represented girls. You boys were taught not to lick cupcakes that weren't yours. No one else wants a licked cupcake, and neither do you.
Ok, so the boys are told that they have a burden of chastity.
So how do you get from that to here?
The burden of chastity was ours[girls alone] to bear, and the prospects of forgiveness for failure were grim.
Lazy research debunked: bcspace x 4 | maklelan x 3 | Coggins7 x 5 (by Mr. Coffee x5) | grampa75 x 1 | whyme x 2 | rcrocket x 2 | Kerry Shirts x 1 | Enuma Elish x 1|
Well, I must be going to hell in a handbasket, because my girls ate the licked cupcake. They weren't about to let a perfectly good dessert they didn't have to make go to waste.
beastie wrote:Sexist societies always put women on pedestals. It's how it works.
I don't think that's true. Radical Muslim societies are sexist, and they don't put women on pedestals. On the contrary, they demonize them.
Lazy research debunked: bcspace x 4 | maklelan x 3 | Coggins7 x 5 (by Mr. Coffee x5) | grampa75 x 1 | whyme x 2 | rcrocket x 2 | Kerry Shirts x 1 | Enuma Elish x 1|