Does God threaten illness for lack of missionary service?

Post by **_Roger Morrison** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:15 am

Hi Ajax, interesting PH 'lesson' from which i respectfully suggest a person can extract what they are conditioned to do OR can take occaision to look at the lesson essence. It appears You are doing the latter, congrats! Did you express your discomfort in the 'class'?

You said:

I'd hate to judge him that harshly. Most of what he preached in that lesson was beautiful gospel and the class was very uplifting. I even felt close to the man since we're both southern rednecks and probably related. Yet when people start talking about their obedience to God being rewarded or cursed in a tangible temporal fashion I get uncomfortable because (if?)it it does happen, it seems to happen in a very unpredictable manner. (If added for clarification)

I 'think' the person to "judge...harshly" would be the author/originator of the 'story', not your "redneck" cuz. He's just doing his job.

That in itself demonstrates ONE of THE debilitating pandemics of LDSism: Having a legion of poor shmoes to unquestionably throw the balls made for them by indoctrinates of an institution lacking the integrity of self examination.

The up-side of this: There are thinking-believers who see a little better through the dark glass than do others. This CAN open them to a better understanding of their choice of spirtual-food, and just how much can healthily be ingested. We each have our own spititual-dietary metabolisms... Used to be a popular coloquialism in my long-ago youth, "Don't eat "THAT" Oscar, it's "S..T!" :-)

As for the "Lesson"--that should be a warning--"story"--another warning: IMSCO, "God" does not work the way the story would have its 'students' believe. To think in terms of a Gambling/Betting/High-stakes "God" leads one to believe in injustice, prejudice and arbitrariness that fosters self-incrimination and guilt. Not a good state of spiritual health...

Am i suggesting, "faith is for fools"? Not in the least! Simply this, "faith in foolishness" is what is to be avoided! Wisdom will play its part in differentiation... Be careful what ya swallow... Warm regards, Roger

Post by **_Inconceivable** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:25 pm

Thanks Roger. Reading what you posted above about 20 years ago would have given me an edge. Makes me wonder if I was even ready for it then.

Post by **_nomi** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:48 am

Hey Ajax, have you inquired of the Lord?emember that was the question that Nephi his brothers.That's what i normally do when i find myself in your situation. But I honestly think what your teacher was trying to teach you was that we need to give our lives to God,not that God is going to give you some disease when you don't serve a mission. Pres. Thomas S Monson once said that= "serving a mission is not a must but its a priviledge", and rember that we all have agency. But the moral of the lesson is that to be where Heavenly Father is we need to sacrifice our wordly appitites and give of our time, talents to build the kingdom of God. So, I think that what the Savior was saying in that statement is that if that particular person was to sacrifice for His Kingdom then he would take all His infirmities and heal them . He was not talking about his sickness but He was also referring to the spiritual infirmities and burdens that particular person was facing. Now I know some missionaries who got answers and healing bu serving their missions, but I really don't beleive that was the moral of the story, I honestly beleive that your teacher was trying to teach the importace of being in the world but not of the wordl, Brother Inquire Of The Lord, Lean not unto our understanding but the Lords and He will direct thy paths for good. Hope I made sense.

Post by **_The Nehor** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:49 am

Yes, God makes threats all the time. He offers blessings and threats in roughly equal proportion. He's pretty dedicated about his plan. More dedicated than the most nutzoid zealot you've ever met.

Post by **_Roger Morrison** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:36 am

The Nehor wrote:Yes, God makes threats all the time. He offers blessings and threats in roughly equal proportion. He's pretty dedicated about his plan. More dedicated than the most nutzoid zealot you've ever met.

IF i understand you correctly: Something like--ya gotta do it right to get it right=BLESSING! :-) Ya don't do it right=NO blessing! :-( Then i agree... Nothing magicical, other than "solving the mystery: how to do that???" ie boilwater, make ice-cubes, fly, sail against the wind, have good relationships, peace with self AND others... Right??? It's ALL there, WE just gotta uncover the WAY... Warm regards, Roger

Post by **_The Nehor** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:25 pm

Roger Morrison wrote:
The Nehor wrote:Yes, God makes threats all the time. He offers blessings and threats in roughly equal proportion. He's pretty dedicated about his plan. More dedicated than the most nutzoid zealot you've ever met.

IF I understand you correctly: Something like--ya gotta do it right to get it right=BLESSING! :-) Ya don't do it right=NO blessing! :-( Then I agree... Nothing magicical, other than "solving the mystery: how to do that???" ie boilwater, make ice-cubes, fly, sail against the wind, have good relationships, peace with self AND others... Right??? It's ALL there, WE just gotta uncover the WAY... Warm regards, Roger

I think you understand what I'm saying. :)

Post by **_harmony** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:42 pm

The Nehor wrote:Yes, God makes threats all the time. He offers blessings and threats in roughly equal proportion. He's pretty dedicated about his plan. More dedicated than the most nutzoid zealot you've ever met.

Actually, God doesn't. Men do though, all the time. Agenda-driven men, with a specific purpose in mind, usually their own gain.

Post by **_The Nehor** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:23 pm

harmony wrote:
The Nehor wrote:Yes, God makes threats all the time. He offers blessings and threats in roughly equal proportion. He's pretty dedicated about his plan. More dedicated than the most nutzoid zealot you've ever met.

Actually, God doesn't. Men do though, all the time. Agenda-driven men, with a specific purpose in mind, usually their own gain.

I'm pretty sure the whole hell thing was God's idea.

Post by **_ajax18** » Tue May 01, 2007 1:00 am

The Nehor wrote:Yes, God makes threats all the time. He offers blessings and threats in roughly equal proportion. He's pretty dedicated about his plan. More dedicated than the most nutzoid zealot you've ever met.

Do you think God is fair about His plan though. It really turned me off when Mormons started preaching that, "No the gospel is not fair because if we get what we deserve, we all go to hell." So in a nutshell, you can still go to the Celestial kingdom and receive everything God has even if you don't go on the mission or even are active in Church right up till one year before you die.

If God is ultimately fair and it's a deal where if you want the blessing, you have to pay the price just like everyone else, I can agree with that. If Job and others who suffered greatly were just unlucky beings singled out by God to prove a point with Satan and no other reason, is that really fair to Job? I don't see how.

I guess that's the difficulty with Christianity. On the one hand they want to say, "You can always repent," but on the other hand they want to say, "Don't plan on repenting." I get answers like, "Wickedness never was happiness." Yet SWK even admitted that sin was fun. It's certainly less stressful, especially when you consider sins of omission. Some say that Job's sufferings were insignificant to eternity. I contend that they were still very signficant. It just doesn't add up and the only conclusion I can come to is that religion is just trying to play both sides of the coin to get attract as many people as possible.

Post by **_The Nehor** » Tue May 01, 2007 1:18 am

ajax18 wrote:Do you think God is fair about His plan though. It really turned me off when Mormons started preaching that, "No the gospel is not fair because if we get what we deserve, we all go to hell." So in a nutshell, you can still go to the Celestial kingdom and receive everything God has even if you don't go on the mission or even are active in Church right up till one year before you die.

If God is ultimately fair and it's a deal where if you want the blessing, you have to pay the price just like everyone else, I can agree with that. If Job and others who suffered greatly were just unlucky beings singled out by God to prove a point with Satan and no other reason, is that really fair to Job? I don't see how.

I guess that's the difficulty with Christianity. On the one hand they want to say, "You can always repent," but on the other hand they want to say, "Don't plan on repenting." I get answers like, "Wickedness never was happiness." Yet SWK even admitted that sin was fun. It's certainly less stressful, especially when you consider sins of omission. Some say that Job's sufferings were insignificant to eternity. I contend that they were still very signficant. It just doesn't add up and the only conclusion I can come to is that religion is just trying to play both sides of the coin to get attract as many people as possible.

It's a puzzler. Is God fair? In my life it seems he's been not fair, but generous. I don't see how I could have earned what I've gotten.

I admit there have been times where I envy those converted late in life. Then I realize what a monster I can be and am glad I probably have a long time to try to excise it.