My son's baptism

[_Runtu]

So what's the big deal with having your dad or grandpa do the baptism? You could just tell your kid something like "dad never got to baptize any of the grandkids, so he wants to baptize you - because you're the last one to get baptized, which makes you extra special." or "Sometimes dads do the baptism, sometimes grandpas do it. Just like how sometimes dads do the confirmations, and sometimes grandpas do it."

I mean, come on. We're thinking in black and white here.

Black = Son is scarred for life, and a huge family fight erupts. But I keep my integrity.
White = Son is happy (for now at least), and there's no family fight. But I lose my integrity.

There's got to be something in between here - where you keep your integrity, the son is happy, and there's no big family disagreement.

But who knows, maybe not.

I don't see it as losing my integrity. I guess that's why I don't think it's a big deal.

[_Sam Harris]

I also think about and like what Richard Dawkins has to say about imposing religion on children: it's child abuse. They aren't Mormon children, or catholic children, or muslim children. They're children of Mormon, catholic or muslim parents. Kids don't have an informed opinion on philosophy any more than they have on matters of politics, economics, etc.

I like that. I have a vision of what I want my home to be like, but above all it has to be a nurturing place for my kids. I don't care what faith they become, if any at all, I just want them to be happy, stable, and loved. I believe that's what God wants me to do, screw religion. There's something intensely spiritual in letting all the dogma fall away and simply loving someone. It's not the same as religion/repetition.

[_Who Knows]

I don't see it as losing my integrity. I guess that's why I don't think it's a big deal.

Well, ok. Good luck.

You should at least try to spice it up a little bit. Like say something like "I baptize you in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the flying spaghetti monster. Amen."

[_wenglund]

Two days from now I'll be baptizing my youngest son. I had initially decided against doing so, but in the past couple of months my wife has literally begged me to do it. So, I told her that it didn't make much difference to me, but I wondered if my youngest would be disappointed if he were the only one of our six children I didn't baptize. I said I would talk to the bishop, as I wasn't sure he would want me to baptize my son. I spoke to the bishop a few weeks ago, and he said, "Are you planning on baptizing him?" I said I was, as long as that was OK. He said it would be a good thing. Frankly, I was surprised, but to me as long as it's OK with him, there's no reason for me not to do it.

I was thinking that some exmos might find my participating in the ordinance a violation of principle, while some believers might it disrespectful of the ordinance. But you know what? I don't care what anyone thinks. This is between me and my son and the bishop.

For what it's worth, I think your priorities are in the right place. As I see it, this should be about doing what is in your son's best interest, and I think it would mean a great deal to him to have you baptise him. It may also act as a means for further solidifying the bond between you and him, as well as a show of healing/bridging respect and support for the faith of your family members. Whatever presumed violation of principles or supposed disrespect of the ordinance (I personally don't see it), greatly pall in comparison. I respect and support you in your decision.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Runtu]

Well, ok. Good luck.

You should at least try to spice it up a little bit. Like say something like "I baptize you in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the flying spaghetti monster. Amen."

Life is a series of compromises. It seems as if my compromises are not the same as yours. And that's OK.

[_Who Knows]

For what it's worth, I think your priorities are in the right place. As I see it, this should be about doing what is in your son's best interest, and I think it would mean a great deal to him to have you baptise him. It may also act as a means for further solidifying the bond between you and him, as well as a show of healing/bridging respect and support for the faith of your family members. Whatever presumed violation of principles or supposed disrespect of the ordinance (I personally don't see it), greatly pall in comparison. I respect and support you in your decision.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Heh. How about me Wade? Do you think I should baptize my kid in 9 months?

Oh, and the family's making a big trip out of going to the temple - with everyone in the family going. You think I should go to that, so as not to cause any contention?

[_KimberlyAnn]

Two days from now I'll be baptizing my youngest son. I had initially decided against doing so, but in the past couple of months my wife has literally begged me to do it. So, I told her that it didn't make much difference to me, but I wondered if my youngest would be disappointed if he were the only one of our six children I didn't baptize. I said I would talk to the bishop, as I wasn't sure he would want me to baptize my son. I spoke to the bishop a few weeks ago, and he said, "Are you planning on baptizing him?" I said I was, as long as that was OK. He said it would be a good thing. Frankly, I was surprised, but to me as long as it's OK with him, there's no reason for me not to do it.

I was thinking that some exmos might find my participating in the ordinance a violation of principle, while some believers might it disrespectful of the ordinance. But you know what? I don't care what anyone thinks. This is between me and my son and the bishop.

You know me, Runtu, so I probably don't have to say anything about you baptizing your son. But others on the board don't know me as well as you do, so I'll say for their benefit that I wouldn't make the same choice as you. I do, however, respect you and I know how much you care about your family. You're doing what you feel is right and is in the best interest of family peace and that is admirable.

You're a fine dad, Runtu.

KA

[_wenglund]

For what it's worth, I think your priorities are in the right place. As I see it, this should be about doing what is in your son's best interest, and I think it would mean a great deal to him to have you baptise him. It may also act as a means for further solidifying the bond between you and him, as well as a show of healing/bridging respect and support for the faith of your family members. Whatever presumed violation of principles or supposed disrespect of the ordinance (I personally don't see it), greatly pall in comparison. I respect and support you in your decision.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Heh. How about me Wade? Do you think I should baptize my kid in 9 months?

Were you to be of the same gracious, caring, other-centric, forward-thinking, healthy and secure mind as Runtu, then for your son's sake I would say "yes".

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Who Knows]

Heh. How about me Wade? Do you think I should baptize my kid in 9 months?

Were you to be of the same gracious, caring, other-centric, forward-thinking, healthy and secure mind as Runtu, then for your son's sake I would say "yes".

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

So that's a 'no'? Is it really not all about what's in the son's best interest then? Does your whole 'bonding' schpiel not apply to me then? Or is it irrelevant to the actual question?

[_skippy the dead]

Frankly, I think his answer will be more along the lines of:

"I participated in your baptism because it was a family cultural celebration. Even though I did not believe in Mormonism, I did not want you to think, as an 8 year old, that I loved you any less than your older brothers and sisters. I wanted it to be a special day for you in celebrating being together as a family. You're an adult now, and have the means to study things out for yourself and make your own decision. You will always be loved, cared for, and accepted no matter what you decide from a religious standpoint."

I'm sure that Runtu can word this better, but that's the gist of what I think he's trying to say. ;)

But liz, his son doesn't have to feel like he loves him less if he's just up front about his reasons now. In fact, I'd get all the children involved and say something like:

"I know I baptized you all except [youngest son], but I've decided I'm not going to perform this ritual anymore. Sometimes, adults change their minds on important matters (it's called being flexible and open minded), and it's important to let your actions reflect your beliefs. That's called integrity. I'm not going to baptize [youngest son] specifically for the same reasons I baptized everyone else: I love him, and it's my job to demonstrate integrity as a loving father."

Or something like that.

I'm not sure that an eight year old can intellectually understand that reasoning. For him, he would see only that his dad didn't want to do something for him that he'd done for all the other kids. I think Runtu is doing a good thing for his family in performing the ordinance, even though it doesn't have religious significance for him. Since it does for his wife and family, it's seems to be a good compromise.