The Prophet Boasts

[_harmony]

No, Jesus didn't ask his followers to save him. But unless you believe Ben-hur was historical, Joseph had a legion who would have come and Jesus didn't. His followers fled realizing he was most likely going to his death. Joseph's followers had a pledge of protection.

I question whether the U.S. army could or would have stopped the Nauvoo Legion. The Nauvoo Legion was over half the size of the U.S. army at the time. The U.S. army was spread out, the Legion was not. If Joseph had conquered Illinois would the Federal Government have stepped in? They would now I'm sure but States were much more sovereign then.

You think the citizens would have just sat there and let their families be killed? You think there would have been no retaliation? You think the leaders of th Nauvoo Legion didn't know what was in store for them (armed combat, death, and if they lived, trial for treason and hanging)?

Joseph also told the truth. No man did what he did. He did what Jesus and others did not.

Oh balderdash! I'm surprised at you, Nehor. Joseph didn't do much of anything. Joseph was well on the way to destroying what had been built up, when he was conveniently killed (removed, if Brigham was right). Brigham is the one who held it all together, by the strength of his personality and the sheer force of will power.

Jesus did do a greater work though....much greater. But Jesus was not just a man.

Yeah, the Saviour of the world does kinda obliterate any claim to fame Joseph might have.

[_The Nehor]

No, Jesus didn't ask his followers to save him. But unless you believe Ben-hur was historical, Joseph had a legion who would have come and Jesus didn't. His followers fled realizing he was most likely going to his death. Joseph's followers had a pledge of protection.

I question whether the U.S. army could or would have stopped the Nauvoo Legion. The Nauvoo Legion was over half the size of the U.S. army at the time. The U.S. army was spread out, the Legion was not. If Joseph had conquered Illinois would the Federal Government have stepped in? They would now I'm sure but States were much more sovereign then.

You think the citizens would have just sat there and let their families be killed? You think there would have been no retaliation? You think the leaders of th Nauvoo Legion didn't know what was in store for them (armed combat, death, and if they lived, trial for treason and hanging)?

Joseph also told the truth. No man did what he did. He did what Jesus and others did not.

Oh balderdash! I'm surprised at you, Nehor. Joseph didn't do much of anything. Joseph was well on the way to destroying what had been built up, when he was conveniently killed (removed, if Brigham was right). Brigham is the one who held it all together, by the strength of his personality and the sheer force of will power.

Jesus did do a greater work though....much greater. But Jesus was not just a man.

Yeah, the Saviour of the world does kinda obliterate any claim to fame Joseph might have.

I don't think the citizens would have put up with it but I'm not sure they could stop it. We might have had 2 Civil Wars in our History Books. I'm grateful we didn't.

I'm surprised at you Harmony. Joseph did much. The books I study every night came through his hands. He was God's instrument in setting up the organization I belong to. In the front of my Book of Mormon I have written 4 quotes by him that inspire me. Most importantly he ended the Apostasy and without him I do not know if I would be where I am. Would my relationship with God be as strong as it is? Would I have still have seen visions and dreams leading me to the hope of a glorious heaven? Would I know the truths that I now value more than my life? Would I think that crying 'daddy' to the heavens would be fruitless? I don't know. Another may have been able to do his work. For this and more Joseph is on my long (growing) list of people to thank when I die.

Unless you think that every experience you've had with the gospel has been horrible I would think you owe him something too.

[_harmony]

I don't think the citizens would have put up with it but I'm not sure they could stop it. We might have had 2 Civil Wars in our History Books. I'm grateful we didn't.

I'm surprised at you Harmony. Joseph did much. The books I study every night came through his hands. He was God's instrument in setting up the organization I belong to. In the front of my Book of Mormon I have written 4 quotes by him that inspire me. Most importantly he ended the Apostasy and without him I do not know if I would be where I am. Would my relationship with God be as strong as it is? Would I have still have seen visions and dreams leading me to the hope of a glorious heaven? Would I know the truths that I now value more than my life? Would I think that crying 'daddy' to the heavens would be fruitless? I don't know. Another may have been able to do his work. For this and more Joseph is on my long (growing) list of people to thank when I die.

Unless you think that every experience you've had with the gospel has been horrible I would think you owe him something too.

Joseph's work was the Book of Mormon, not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Everything else Joseph did, he did on his own, without the mantle of prophet. Rewriting history doesn't change it, and when he (or whoever he instructed) rewrote that particular commandment, he set a precedent and started down a long dark path to his eventual destruction. Once that was clear to me, I was able to put Joseph in his proper place in history.

The Book of Mormon is a glorious thing; Joseph didn't need anything else to have his place of glory with God. His ego got the better of him, and we are still cleaning up his messes. I fear he is not where church members think he is.

Brigham is responsible for much of what the church is today. Be grateful to Brigham. Joseph was a flash in the pan, compared to Brigham. Without Brigham, we'd have nothing. At least he preserved it as best he could, so we could keep tweaking it, to hopefully eventually get it right. I have hope that eventually the church will almost resemble the Kingdom of God it so desperately wants to be. Right now, it is far from it. I trust no man who claims to speak for God, yet tells me that my personal relationship with God is to be subjugated to his own. Not gonna happen.

[_The Nehor]

I don't think the citizens would have put up with it but I'm not sure they could stop it. We might have had 2 Civil Wars in our History Books. I'm grateful we didn't.

I'm surprised at you Harmony. Joseph did much. The books I study every night came through his hands. He was God's instrument in setting up the organization I belong to. In the front of my Book of Mormon I have written 4 quotes by him that inspire me. Most importantly he ended the Apostasy and without him I do not know if I would be where I am. Would my relationship with God be as strong as it is? Would I have still have seen visions and dreams leading me to the hope of a glorious heaven? Would I know the truths that I now value more than my life? Would I think that crying 'daddy' to the heavens would be fruitless? I don't know. Another may have been able to do his work. For this and more Joseph is on my long (growing) list of people to thank when I die.

Unless you think that every experience you've had with the gospel has been horrible I would think you owe him something too.

Joseph's work was the Book of Mormon, not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Everything else Joseph did, he did on his own, without the mantle of prophet. Rewriting history doesn't change it, and when he (or whoever he instructed) rewrote that particular commandment, he set a precedent and started down a long dark path to his eventual destruction. Once that was clear to me, I was able to put Joseph in his proper place in history.

The Book of Mormon is a glorious thing; Joseph didn't need anything else to have his place of glory with God. His ego got the better of him, and we are still cleaning up his messes. I fear he is not where church members think he is.

Brigham is responsible for much of what the church is today. Be grateful to Brigham. Joseph was a flash in the pan, compared to Brigham. Without Brigham, we'd have nothing. At least he preserved it as best he could, so we could keep tweaking it, to hopefully eventually get it right. I have hope that eventually the church will almost resemble the Kingdom of God it so desperately wants to be. Right now, it is far from it. I trust no man who claims to speak for God, yet tells me that my personal relationship with God is to be subjugated to his own. Not gonna happen.

I can but disagree.

[_Polygamy Porter]

And what great apostasy?

Huh?

That's a non-answer, Loran. What great apostasy? When did it occur and how?

Jersey Girl

Good Grief.

For as long as you have been hanging out with exmos and TBMs and you do not know about the so called great apostasy?

Helllo?

[_Jersey Girl]

And what great apostasy?

Huh?

That's a non-answer, Loran. What great apostasy? When did it occur and how?

Jersey Girl

Good Grief.

For as long as you have been hanging out with exmos and TBMs and you do not know about the so called great apostasy?

Helllo?

I know "about" it, Porter. I've never received a straight up answer on when or how it occured or just exactly what was restored. Would you like to take a whack at that one?

Jersey Girl

[_Polygamy Porter]

And what great apostasy?

Huh?

That's a non-answer, Loran. What great apostasy? When did it occur and how?

Jersey Girl

Good Grief.

For as long as you have been hanging out with exmos and TBMs and you do not know about the so called great apostasy?

Helllo?

I know "about" it, Porter. I've never received a straight up answer on when or how it occured or just exactly what was restored. Would you like to take a whack at that one?

Jersey Girl

Take it right from the horse's arse:

Restored Christianity

* Because Latter-day Saints believe that divine apostolic authority was lost from the earth after the death of the ancient apostles, a restoration of that authority was necessary. Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that restoration began in the early 1800s with revelations to the young Joseph Smith.

Hey, I just noticed, the above link to LDS.org, has what is known as the "truck driver Jesus" portrayal of Jesus:

[_Jersey Girl]

What authority?

Jersey Girl

[_harmony]

b

Take it right from the horse's arse:

Restored Christianity

* Because Latter-day Saints believe that divine apostolic authority was lost from the earth after the death of the ancient apostles, a restoration of that authority was necessary. Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that restoration began in the early 1800s with revelations to the young Joseph Smith.

Nothing like a bit of hubris, there.

How do we account for John the Beloved?

[_Polygamy Porter]

What authority?

Jersey Girl

Lemme spell it out for ya ;)

A P O S T O L I C Authority.