guys, it's breath-taking time

[_Coggins7]

You forgot one,

You conclude based on research that illegal and mass immigration is a drag on the economy and will ulitmately result in lowering the standard of living of the common American to a level they would never have agreed to if they had enough sense to foresee the results. You'd like to put a check on this with responsible immigration laws so that the economy is not overwhelmed with an inexhaustible supply of unkilled labor coming from the south. (You're a xenophobic racist)

Very true. What's really going on here, of course, is that both parties want these millions of immigrants here, regardless of what they have to contribute to the American experiment, to keep Social Security, Medicare, and the rest of the welfare state afloat, as the above two are set to begin self destruction in about ten years, and take much of the economy, over time, with them. They can't be reformed (privatization is really the only way out here) because too many toes would be stepped on, and control of the money would slip from the politicians hands. We haven't been adequately replacing ourselves, and have aborted some 48,000,000 of us, since the seventies, and so we need the warm bodies (it is claimed).

A Republic dies, not with a bang, but with a slow burn.

[_ajax18]

You forgot one,

You conclude based on research that illegal and mass immigration is a drag on the economy and will ulitmately result in lowering the standard of living of the common American to a level they would never have agreed to if they had enough sense to foresee the results. You'd like to put a check on this with responsible immigration laws so that the economy is not overwhelmed with an inexhaustible supply of unkilled labor coming from the south. (You're a xenophobic racist)

Very true. What's really going on here, of course, is that both parties want these millions of immigrants here, regardless of what they have to contribute to the American experiment, to keep Social Security, Medicare, and the rest of the welfare state afloat, as the above two are set to begin self destruction in about ten years, and take much of the economy, over time, with them. They can't be reformed (privatization is really the only way out here) because too many toes would be stepped on, and control of the money would slip from the politicians hands. We haven't been adequately replacing ourselves, and have aborted some 48,000,000 of us, since the seventies, and so we need the warm bodies (it is claimed).

I see your point and thankfully we agree far more than we disagree. My stance is that they shouldn't be here illegally, simple as that, and I really hate the idea of granting amnesty to those who ignored the law and came anyway. I even more hate wealthy corporate America who told the common man to, "Go to Hell," because this helps my bottom line. If we took a hard look at the costs of social programs necessary to keep people afloat who are willing to work for $5/hr no benefits, and future resentment of the immigrants for this exploitation, we'd understand that it really doesn't help the bottom line.

No we haven't been replacing ourselves, but maybe if didn't have to pay for other people to replace themselves we might have more means to do it, at a standard of living that we deem acceptable for human life. The fact is that they're willing to have kids now and ignore the fact that they can't afford it. Family planning and fiscal responsibility have turned into a huge evolutionary disadvantage under this abominable socialism in which we live.

Make no mistake about it. Illegal immigration is in the interest of the immigrant, a few economically elite, and the crazy leftist looking for cheap votes. For the common American it's very bad news indeed. Yet divided as we are, we're powerless to stop it. They are reconquering this country as we speak, just as prophesied in the Book of Mormon. If the status quo remains this country will become a Latin American country for all practical purposes in less than three generations.

Sending social security benefits to people in foreign countries is part of what made it turn into the economic mess it is. Did you realize there were times when people could come here and work for no more than sixty days and then return to their country and draw social security for the rest of their lives? The other factor is that it's just simply a bad program that should have been repealed after the depression was over, along with the other socialist garbage we got pushed into by FDR. I hate FICA so bad I'd declare all out war on it if I could.

A Republic dies, not with a bang, but with a slow burn.

[_Gazelam]

[_Jersey Girl]

If that's a prayer circle, I'm hoping Nehor is right in the middle. If that's a group hug, let the record show that I ain't huggin' Mr. Coffee.

;-)

[_harmony]

[img]

Ya know, for some reason, I really like that picture. Those are just ordinary people, circling each other, touching each other without flinching, holding hands and at peace with each other. No one's trying to claim he's a prophet. No one's lecturing anyone about their sins. No one's face is veiled. Their clothes are all different. They're all adding strength to whole.

Thanks, Gaz.

[_Mercury]

Scratch's charges of racism against those who dissent from the standard pc orthodoxy regarding Affirmative Action, racial set asides, lowered admissions standards, and reparations, are not intended to be intellectually substantive. They are nothing more than a well poisoning technique that artificially turns the focus of a debate away from the substance of the issue to the motivations and character of his interlocutor.

This technique is a demagogic one, not a philosophical one, and whatever you think of Scratch's politics (which he won't pin himself down on any more than his "degrees"), its a technique that has been standard among the cultural Left since the Sixties when dealing with principled disagreement with various policies and ideological concepts.

Here is how it works:

Special, institutionalized privileges or exemptions, based not on merit, but on group affiliation, are wrong (your are a racist).

Homosexuality is morally wrong, sinful, and socially destructive (you are a homophobe)

Socialism is an inefficient and morally questionable way to manage a society (you hate the poor)

Radical Feminism has had a destructive and malignant effect upon society (you are a male chauvinist, if not a misogynist. You are anti-woman).

The environmental movement has had a destructive and malignant effect upon society (you are anti-environment).

Capitalism is the best and most efficient form of economic conduct ever developed by man (you are a greedy, mean spirited, capitalist oppressor).

This is how leftist demagogues play the game. Keep in mind folks, that this is the guy who thinks the original King Kong model was made of clay!

You ARE a racist, you ARE a homophobe, you do look down on the poor (theyre not as rightwous as you...if they were they wouldn't be poor! right?), you ARE a chauvanist/misogynist, you ARE blind to environmental concerns.

As for Capitalism, Joseph Smith was a communist. So was Brigham Young. If you think differently, look to the clusterf*** called The United Order.

Essentially Cog, your defending these monikers you say do not fit your profile but frankly you are the epitome of racism, etc.

[_ajax18]

As for Capitalism, Joseph Smith was a communist. So was Brigham Young. If you think differently, look to the clusterf*** called The United Order.

I'll admit it. I thank the Lord every day that we don't practice the United Order on earth and, and I'm lower middle class.

Essentially Cog, your defending these monikers you say do not fit your profile but frankly you are the epitome of racism, etc.

You know you guys need to be more careful throwing the word "racist" around so lightly. If Coggins is the epitome of racism than maybe it's not nearly as bad as I was taught it was, epsecially given the creative one sided definition it has taken on in popular culture.

[_The Nehor]

If that's a prayer circle, I'm hoping Nehor is right in the middle. If that's a group hug, let the record show that I ain't huggin' Mr. Coffee.

;-)

Can't.......breathe.....in here.

[_Mister Scratch]

You know you guys need to be more careful throwing the word "racist" around so lightly. If Coggins is the epitome of racism than maybe it's not nearly as bad as I was taught it was, epsecially given the creative one sided definition it has taken on in popular culture.

Perhaps you'd care to explain why you get so upset at the reality---or prospect---of being called a "racist"? If you suffer so horribly from "reverse racism," then what's the big deal? Why not throw up your arms in one big, happy, right-wing celebration of the glories of widespread, equally distributed racism?

If racism simply meant not to discriminate against a person based on race and everybody, black, male and female were on board with that I would have been a big supporter. Yet practically it's come to mean that a white person can't say anything negative about a nonwhite person but vice versa is fine.

Why do you think this? For example, I can remember when Dusty Baker, who was then the skipper for, I believe, the Chicago Cubs, made a remark about how dark skinned people do better in hot weather---a remark he was sharply chastised for. Could it be that you only seem to notice when white people are redressed for their racism, and conveniently manage to overlook when it happens in the reverse? Or perhaps you object to what seems to be a greater occurrence of racism among whites?

If it's not fine, it's seldom talked about, nor have my concerns about reverse racism ever been validated when I've brought them up.

Do you feel that racism towards Blacks is or ought to be on equal footing---morally and ethically speaking---as racism towards members of the white majority? (Likewise, do you think comparisons between persecution of LDS and persecution of Jews is morally and ethically equivalent?)

Thus I've grown even more suspicious and angry at this constant chorus of racism especially at the political level. Incidentally my black friends seem to understand not to talk about racism with me and we do fine. Yet you leftists see it as the greatest sin a man can commit and somehow only a white man can commit it. Listening to you people and your unfairness and biased reporting of the facts has probably driven me more towards being a racist than anything else,

Wait a second.... You are using your perception of the media---and other people's behavior---to justify your own racism? I mean, I could understand if you said, "I feel like there is this imbalance in the media, and in the things leftists say, and I wish the coverage and discussion were more balanced, but I still strongly disapprove of racism." Instead, you are saying that it is someone else's fault that you're a racist????

even my own biological nature.

Ah, I see. Now it's human nature to be racist. Unbelievable.

If you really want young white men to not be racist, perhaps it would be a little wiser to try and gain their trust and see their side of the story instead of constantly attacking them in this unwarranted barrage of leftist propaganda that seemed to start as early as the fifth grade.

Ajax---what are you talking about? What "side of the story"? That they did not have to endure racism? What are you talking about? What "unwanted barrage of leftist propaganda"? Are you sure that you haven't bought into a right-wing conspiracy story about how non-whites are going to "take over the country"?

[_Mercury]

Ah, I see. Now it's human nature to be racist. Unbelievable.

Based on my psych professors there is an evolutionary reason for racism. This still does not make it right, as monkeys are accustomed biologically to throw poo.