Peterson and Gee's libel against Ritner?

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_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

I had a pleasant exchange with both of the scholars Kevin emailed with false information


EXCUSE ME?? What false information? Juliann is talking out of her ass again. She knows damn well there was no "false" information which is why she only asserts it and NEVER specifies. That is partly because her audience at MAD doesn't really need specifics. All they need is a claim, pretty much the same way LDS apologists only needed to hear some story about how Ritner was successfully removed because of Gee. Nobody verified it until now, and now their entire universe is collapsing because it turns out that what was uncritically believed for so long just might not be true.

both verified that I had accurately represented their work once they were given an opportunity to see what I actually said.


Again, no specifics. She pretends my emails to them were about her. And after demanding to the forum that I present all my emails, sent and received, to the forum for open scrutiny (or be banned!), she gets the luxury of referring to some mysterious "conversation" that nobody can verify for details. We'll never know what she said to them. All we have is her usual assertion that we're just supposed to take for granted.

Anyway, she has forced me to embarrass her more on this, so I will detail all the emails in due time.

Now Kevin obviously has their email addresses and he can certainly email them again to verify what they think about what he did to them. (in fact, Kevin...I think it would be very helpful to both of these men to see what you are now doing to Ritner).


Doing to Ritner? According to Ritner I did him a service. According to Juliann's universe I just raped his wife and slaughtered his cat. I let Ritner know he was being dragged through the proverbial mud in Mormon circles. Now he is in an informed position to respond as he chooses. That really burns Juliann up, to be sure.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

I don't see a purpose in your reporting it other than to erect a doubt in the minds of people that can never be fully resolved on boards like these.



The purpose in reporting it is obvious to everyone else. A man has been accused of something very serious. The charge has stood for five years now. Now it turns out that the accused finally makes a statement denying its validity. This would go far in the minds of those who have already been converted to Gee's story.

You seem to forget that the ONLY thing the LDS have against Ritner is that he has an axe to grind. This incident is ALWAYS brought up to support that contention. Without it, they are just making bald assertions.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

beastie wrote:juliann:

Notice that in Kevin's world, if he emails someone, someone else has "dragged him into it". In Kevin's mind he has nothing to do with it. As you can see, he is becoming defensive about his exchange and trying to explain it away even though he is now admitting his target was obviously not happy with what he did to him. I had a pleasant exchange with both of the scholars Kevin emailed with false information and both verified that I had accurately represented their work once they were given an opportunity to see what I actually said. Now Kevin obviously has their email addresses and he can certainly email them again to verify what they think about what he did to them. (in fact, Kevin...I think it would be very helpful to both of these men to see what you are now doing to Ritner).


I, for one, would love to see these email exchanges. I would like to see how Juliann's writings were compatible with Bromley's theory while completely ignoring the fact that the new religion has to be viewed as subversive by the larger society in order for oppositional groups, as used in the model, to be formed.


I would very much like to see them, too. It seems that Prof. Peterson's claims about not engaging in gossipmongering and smear tactics were very dishonest indeed. Also, if it is genuinely true that he was posting as "Logic Chopper," then his lectures about the use of online anonymity are tainted even further. Finally, juliann---of all people---ought to know better than to accuse others of manufacturing evidence. The greatest whopper of this kind in the whole history of online Mopologetics was delivered by none other than juliann herself!
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

dartagnan wrote:Jersey, do us all a favor and take your personality disorder elsewhere. I don't care what you have to say ( I haven't for quite a while) and it appears nobody else does either. Please don't turn this thread into another Jerseygirl show.


Yeah, I agree. Jersey as of late has been spiraling out of control, flailing about wildly and lecturing people on morals and ethics. In fact, increasingly, she has begun to sound very much like our very favorite five-alarmist, Ray A.
_rcrocket

Post by _rcrocket »

dartagnan wrote:Doing to Ritner? According to Ritner I did him a service. According to Juliann's universe I just raped his wife and slaughtered his cat. I let Ritner know he was being dragged through the proverbial mud in Mormon circles. Now he is in an informed position to respond as he chooses. That really burns Juliann up, to be sure.


Has Ritner ever been specific, or are we just waiting for the Metcalf book?

rcrocket
_maklelan
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Post by _maklelan »

I'd like to apologize to all involved for lighting this tinder box. I had no idea there was so much history and hard feelings fomenting under this issue, so please except my apologies for starting all this.
I like you Betty...

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_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

I'd like to apologize to all involved for lighting this tinder box. I had no idea there was so much history and hard feelings fomenting under this issue, so please except my apologies for starting all this.


You must not have been a participant on ZLMB. Yes, there is a very long history between quite a few people on this board and MAD. :P

So Juliann has offered to share the Bromley emails with someone we both trust. I really do want to know what Bromley and Mauss had to say about removing the subversive element of their model without so impacting the entire structure that the dependent research would not be transferable, but am having a hard time coming up with a name we both trust. I originally thought of The Dude, but he and Juliann are crossing swords at the moment, so that probably won't pass. Any suggestions or volunteers? I trust TruthDancer, but doubt Juliann would. Of course, my suggesting names doesn't mean that I think that the person should volunteer, I understand some people would rather avoid the whole mess. I'll have to ponder it.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

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_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

I don't have the emails on my laptop, so I won't be able to access them on my server until later next week when I get back in town.

Beastie, I think I sent you the entire email exchange didn't I?

I remember I was about to post the entire exchange but then realized nobody seemed interested in it anymore and I was feeling kinda bad for putting Mauss in an awkward position. He is buddies with Juliann so naturally he felt reluctant to say anything explicitly against her method, and it didn't seem he was at all interested in looking for anything. He did give me the privilege to share his emails with whomever I wanted, and he said this was true of all his emails. He sent me emails even after Juliann started emailing him and trying to pry out some kind of "false" statement from my emails to him, and I think he threw his hands up and wanted out. I respected that, but he certainly did't take sides as Juliann seems to be implying. HE kept sending me notes after I thought our discussion had ended. He even sent me a couple of emails Juliann sent him if I recall. I didn't ask for any of that, he just did it on his own.

Further, I cannot think of one single statement Bromley or Mauss said that I disagreed with. Nothing. Juliann is always trying to make it sound like the experts and I disagree, but as usual, she never provides examples. She just casually declares it so without evidence. Very much like she does now in lying to her audience about how I have a history of emailing scholars out of the blue with false statements. WHAT false statements Juliann? Stop being a coward and step up to the plate and produce.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

You sent me the first batch, but I don't think I saw the subsequent follow-up emails. I will have to search to find them. I'm afraid you may have sent them to me via this site, which means I didn't have the foresight to save it. Since there is a limit on how much email can be in the MD private message box, I regularly clean it out. But I do know that there was no evidence you "editing" anything.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_moksha
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Post by _moksha »

dartagnan wrote:Jersey, do us all a favor and take your personality disorder elsewhere. I don't care what you have to say ( I haven't for quite a while) and it appears nobody else does either. Please don't turn this thread into another Jerseygirl show.


Yikes, this is turning ugly. Is there no way to stop it?


Here is one item I do have some curiosity about, but I do hope it is not a hornet's nest: Juliann (@ MAD) said Kevin sent emails to her Professors about her. Why would something like this ever occur?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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