Tal on Youtube

_Ray A · Post by **_Ray A** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:35 am

Tal Bachman wrote:May I suggest that, as a rule of thumb, when Ray A starts making sense to you, you need to think things through again?

And this coming from a star RFM poster, the bastion of objectivity where Brent Metcalfe and Dan Vogel are Mormon apologists. LOL. You make me laugh, Tal.

Post by **_Coggins7** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:12 am

RFM?

You see, in the world of ex-Mormondom, this puts Tal on a par with, what in the secular world would be Scholars for 9/11 Truth or The Daily Kos.

Post by **_Tal Bachman** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:25 am

Ray A and Coggins7

Can I ask a serious question?

Are you guys in an asylum or something? Is it really too much to expect you to, say, GIVE EXAMPLES of things you think I've gotten wrong? Your performances on these posts are frigging embarrassing. It was the same last time. I may not be the smartest guy around, but at least when it comes to me, you guys seem to confine yourselves to comments on masturbation, exmo guilt by association, not having the right number of hits...it is totally embarrassing. Conversing with you would make anyone look like a genius.

I have a proposition for you guys, Coggins7 in particular, since you seem marginally more inclined to cognition: why don't you select something I've said about Mormonism that you think is wrong. NOT that you find "offensive" - that you think is WRONG. Then, you tell me why you think it's wrong. If I see you're right, I'll take it back, or apologize for it. Or, if I think you're wrong, I'll explain why to you (and then you guys can go on simply repeating the same things you always do, as if I'd never said anything).

Why not try it? We all post things we regret sometimes, but reading your posts on here is mortifying, they're so dumb.

Go ahead - explain to me what I've gotten wrong about Mormonism, using some specific example.

_Ray A · Post by **_Ray A** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:01 am

Tal Bachman wrote: I may not be the smartest guy around, but at least when it comes to me, you guys seem to confine yourselves to comments on masturbation, exmo guilt by association, not having the right number of hits...it is totally embarrassing. Conversing with you would make anyone look like a genius.

You obviously haven't visited the Telestial Forum, where the sewer is located. At least here there is a separate sewer - RFM is an entire sewer.

Tal Bachman wrote: I have a proposition for you guys.....

WHAT! A proposition?? And you think I focus on guys?

Tal Bachman wrote: why don't you select something I've said about Mormonism that you think is wrong. NOT that you find "offensive" - that you think is WRONG. Then, you tell me why you think it's wrong. If I see you're right, I'll take it back, or apologize for it. Or, if I think you're wrong, I'll explain why to you (and then you guys can go on simply repeating the same things you always do, as if I'd never said anything). Why not try it.

Maybe I will.

Tal Bachman wrote: We all post things we regret sometimes, but reading your posts on here is mortifying, they're so dumb.

Don't "mortify" yourself too much. You could always go back to RFM where the theory that asses don't talk is quashed. Convincingly.

Tal Bachman wrote: Go ahead - explain to me what I've gotten wrong about Mormonism, using some specific example.

It's not about what you "got wrong". Not everyone sees the world through your narrow lense of post Mormonism, but you seem to think everyone should.

Post by **_Polygamy Porter** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:11 am

Ray A wrote:
Tal Bachman wrote:Go ahead - explain to me what I've gotten wrong about Mormonism, using some specific example.

It's not about what you "got wrong". Not everyone sees the world through your narrow lense of post Mormonism, but you seem to think everyone should.

Which Ray is speaking now? Mo'Ray or Pissed Ray?

Post by **_Jason Bourne** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:16 am

Gotta agree with Ray on this one Tal. It was over the top. If you really felt that way you really had issues.

Really?

Yes. Did you have trouble understanding this? The statement was assanine and stupid and there a literally no ex missionaries who feel this way unless they are fanatical exmos like you and TAL. If TAL was honest he would admit he was trying to create shock values.

In your opinion?

Which is correct.

Which sterile modern environment did you "serve" your two years?

Does it matter?

Did you go?

Yes. Did you? There is not one missionary I served with that would have said or felt that if the MP said be a suicide bomber they would have acted. We all would have thought the MP was nuts.

From Tal's description of his environment and hearing his and other stories of how the mission presidents drove the missionaries down there, I can see that type of zeal in these young unwitting boys. Why not? They are told if they die while on a Mormon mission it is a one way ticket to the CK.

Given your posturing here that does not surprise me but it is a stupid position and not based in reality at all

Old Testament, just curious, does your TBM wife know that you post on this exmo board? If yes, does she read your posts?

This is not an exmo board. And while it really in none of your business the answer is yes she knows I post, no she does not read them but there is nothing that I have brought up here that I have not discussed with her.

Now try to stick to the topic

Post by **_Jason Bourne** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:26 am

The possibility that our respective mission presidents, and church devotion levels, and mission cultures, and mission environments, and mission messages, and mission rules, and MTC teachers, and a dozen other variables, might not have been identical, I guess has never occurred to you, right?

Sure it is possible you had the ONE MP and the ONE mission that fostered a suicide mission mentality. But since I have pretty broad experience in the Church and have never seen anything like you describe I believe you were being sensational for shock value. It

made you look foolish.

And I guess that that temple covenant about consecrating everything, including your life if needs be, to the church, has entirely escaped your memory, right?

You may be ONE of very few who ever believed this applies to suicide bombing. Come on man, use your mind. Are you or were you really ever this dumb to interpret this covenant in such a way?

And I guess Pres. Packer's teachings about never disobeying our priesthood file leaders you've never heard of, right?

I guess I am just bright enough to understand what this means and to know there was never or never will be an intent from this teaching to blow myself up along with others. Were you really this dumb?

And I guess all those MTC talks I and all the others there heard from Packer and Ballard and the like, insisting that we "always obey our mission presidents, as they had been called by direct revelation", you're also incapable of conceiving of, right?

I guess I was just smart enough to understand that they never intended to follow someone who may order evil things like MASS murder.

And I guess all those heroic stories about those were killed for the gospel, and also, those who were willing to kill for the gospel, you never knew about either, right? (You can start with Abraham and go on from there...).

I guess I was just bright enough to understand the story of Abraham was unique and a type or shadow. What other stories you allude to I do not know.

Very poor showing, amigo.

Oh contraire. Your defense of this and example make you look even more foolish.

May I suggest that, as a rule of thumb, when Ray A starts making sense to you, you need to think things through again?

Ray is right on with this one

Post by **_Polygamy Porter** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:26 am

Jason Bourne wrote:
Which sterile modern environment did you "serve" your two years?

Does it matter?

I believe it does.

Did you serve in a third world setting or were you patting sidewalks and turning street corners as yo knocked on DOORS of HOMES?

Did you visit wild animals in the city zoo, or did the wild animals visit you?

A very common question that I was asked by both friends as well as seminary and church teachers was "If someone put a gun to your head and asked if you were a Mormon, and told you if you said yes they would kill you, how would you answer?"

Anything short of "I would proudly tell him that I am a Mormon!!" was not acceptable.

Post by **_Runtu** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:32 am

I've thought a lot about this statement of Tal's. In fact I recall talking with Tal about what we would have been willing to do about a year or so ago. I'm not sure I would have blown myself up and killed other people, but I think I probably would have been willing to do everything but that. And hell, if I'm honest with myself, I trusted my mission president so completely I would have at least prayed about it if he'd asked me to blow myself up.

People seem to think that Tal was after shock value. I don't think so. And I think we all know at least some people who would, if asked, blow themselves up. Of course, maybe I'm just looking for shock value too.

Post by **_TrashcanMan79** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:50 am

Polygamy Porter wrote:A very common question that I was asked by both friends as well as seminary and church teachers was "If someone put a gun to your head and asked if you were a Mormon, and told you if you said yes they would kill you, how would you answer?"

Anything short of "I would proudly tell him that I am a Mormon!!" was not acceptable.

I could see friends asking this kind of thing but seminary and church teachers? That's a little f***** up....