I find it amazing that the argument turns to how many he did rather than the fact that he did.
He did.
He said God forced him to practice polygamy - An example of how God must resort to Satan's plan to get at least this purpose accomplished
He did not repent, He only confessed to his insiders that each of these extramarital affairs were sanctioned by God himself.
He vehemently denied all to the public. Always.
He swore those he told to secrecy.
He did not have even one legal polygamous wife. Not one. Polygamy was and always has been illegal and punishable by law when convicted.
He character assassinated/excommunicated some for not accepting or participating in the dark secret. Does it matter how many? no it doesn't.
He did not tell Emma of each that he had relations with. It doesn't matter how many. The fact remains that he did this at least once.
He had at least one child from an extramarital relationship. The diaries have been dug up over the years.
There is at least one testimony that he had sexual relations with someone other than his wife. BF Johnson is one of several that testified of such events.
He lost the trust and confidence of his wife.
If only one of these were a sin, there has never been confession - only justification.
The Laws published the Nauvoo Expositor that revealed to the world that he practiced these deplorable acts in secret. For whatever reason, he considered it a public nuisance and had the press destroyed.
To the deceived who still think that Joe did not consimate these additional marriages, look at all of the supposed polygamists in the Old Testament, and all of the Mormon polygs after him.
They all had SEX with their wives.
Why would Smith the "RESTORER" of the polyg principle, not do what the "prophets" before him?
Why would the polygs after Smith go against his supposed sexless example?
I will not even get into the references about bringing up righteous seed... and where not talking about when he was alone...
beastie wrote:Well, if he didn't have sex with them, he was violating the stated purpose of eternal marriage, wasn't he? The D&C was quite specific about its purpose.
The idea of Polyandry seems to go against D&C 132 since it requires a man to marry a virgin.
Many were, the real young ones.. Fanny, Helen, etc..
Ether 2:17 wrote:and the bottom thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the sides thereof were tight like unto a dish; and the ends thereof were peaked; and the top thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the length thereof was the length of a tree; and the door thereof, when it was shut, was tight like unto a dish.
Another thing to realize about all of these polygamist marriages is that non were recognized by the laws of the land.
Anndd.. since the Mormons said they obeyed the laws of the land, if any of these men had sex with any of these additional wives, then any sex act with them was, by definition, adultery.. Thereby defining the woman he had sex with, not a wife, but a mistress, girl friend, sex partner, etc...
FURTHER, any child born outside of a legally recognized marriage is, by definition, a bastard. A softer term is illegitimate.
By the show of hands, how many current and former Mormons are the descendants of Mormon bastards or illegitimate Mormons?
Yes, Kimberly Ann, despite Coggins' claim to the contrary, Joseph Smith had sex with other men's wives. There are several lines of evidence for this:
First, in marriage the presumption is that sex occurs, unless we have reason to believe otherwise.
Second, more than one of Joseph Smith's otherwise-married wives explicity stated that she was married to him for "*time* and eternity." Mary Lightner and, if I recall correctly, Patty Sessions specifically indicated this with respect to their marriages to Smith.
Third, the rationale offered for plural marriage was "to raise up seed unto the Lord." If Joseph Smith did *not* have sex with his otherwise-married plural wives, he was flouting the very reason for marrying them.
Fourth, three important evidences indicate that Sylvia Sessions Lyon, legal wife of Windsor P. Lyon, believed her other husband, Joseph Smith, to be the father of her daughter Josephine Lyon. 1) Josephine herself left an affidavit that her mother gave her death-bed testimony that she (Josephine) was Smith's child. Supporting this testimony, Sylvia's Nauvoo friend Mary Ettie V. Smith reported in print that Sylvia had told her she was uncertain whether Windsor Lyon or Joseph Smith was the father of her child. And, notably, she named the child *Josephine*, likely in honor of the suspected father.
Fifth, when Joseph Smith proposed to William Law's wife Jane (a proposal documented in LDS sources as well), it is quite clear that the Laws understood this proposal to include a this-worldly relationship. Law, writing in his journal in April 1844, recorded that Smith had "lately attempted to seduce my wife and found her a virtuous woman."
Sixth, one of the men introduced to polyandrous marriage *by* Joseph Smith appears to have lived with the polyandrous wife. While Orson Hyde was on a mission to Palestine, Smith married Hyde's wife Nancy to Willard Richards. Shortly thereafter, Richards was reported to have been notorious for "Hydeing." And the printer of the Times and Seasons, Ebenezer Robinson, recalled that when the Twelve took over the T&S office, Richards took up living there with Mrs. Hyde. Smith himself performed the marriage between Richards and Nancy Hyde. And when the marriage dissolved a few months later, Smith had Nancy sealed to *himself*!
Given that Smith had "given" Nancy to Richards, Richards' information on how he should and should not relate to her would have come from Smith. So, Smith evidently taught Richards that it was alright (and perhaps expected or required) for him to have sex with an otherwise married 'wife'! Also, it seems unlikely that Richards would cohabit with Nancy when she was *his* polyandrous wife yet Smith would *not*, particularly since Smith was the one who had instructed Richards...
This list of evidences is not exhaustive, but should be sufficient to convince a reasonable and open-minded person that Joseph Smith had sex with at least a significant proportion of his polyandrous wives, if not almost all of them.
Jersey Girl wrote:I've discussed this before and just recently on RFM as well. Let me play Devil's Advocate....
Inconceiveable
He had at least one child from an extramarital relationship.
Prove it.
My point is that it doesn't even need to be proved (although there are some will speculate till they die that journals of deceased relatives prove it - because their great grandmother, aunt etc was above reproach).
Besides, according to many that practiced this abomination, they testified that they were aware of him consumating at least one relationship (if not many). It's amazing but true, but sex does not always make a baby. I kid you not.
I mean, look at the list that alledgedly describes his damage path. Even if one of the many I listed were true, it would paint over that prophet sign he hung out for all to see.
The fact of the matter is that he was unfaithful to his wife at least once, breaking marriage vows that many of us and society hold sacred - without exception.
:(
edited to omit the word "clown" from describing people that have the capacity to remember/reference names & dates much better than I can
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Inconceivable wrote:The fact of the matter is that he was unfaithful to his wife at least once, breaking marriage vows that many of us and society hold sacred - without exception.
:(
Yet, that is NOT the story they paint for the membership. They actively teach that Joe and Emma had the very best marriage. Emma the doting servant wife who loved the "Prophet", and Joe the loving husband who wrote love letters to Emma and always took time out if his busy RESTORATION work to spend time with her and their children.
He was spending time with children alright.. teen aged female children.