Did Joseph Smith have sex with other men's wives?

[_KimberlyAnn]

runtu,

I don't think Jason realized Sylvia was already married, and that was why he accepted that evidence but questioned the evidence for sexual polyandry in specific.

That was my impression. The evidence is there, and Sylvia was a polyandrous wife. It seems pretty clear to me.

And I'm not trying to argue with Jason, whom I have always respected for his evenhanded approach to things. I just thought he wasn't aware of some of the evidence.

I think the arguments here are reasonable. The fact that the revelation mandates raising seed, the Sylvia Sessions issue and the WOW eye opener the beastie posted from D&C 132, along with the fact that Zina eventually consummated her marriage for time to BY (course BY told Henry to hit the road) it seems more probable then not the sex was part of some of these polyandrous relations.

Jason, I remember when I learned that Joseph Smith married other men's wives and likely consummated those marriages. I felt as if someone had punched me in the gut. It was a major blow to my testimony. Really, it was the beginning of the end. It wasn't long after that until I knew the Mormon church wasn't what it claimed to be and decided I could no longer support it with my attendance.

If you've learned here for the first time that Smith had sex with his polyandrous wives, I hope you're not feeling as sick to your stomach as I did when I found out.

Thinking of you,

KA

[_KimberlyAnn]

Yes, Kimberly Ann, despite Coggins' claim to the contrary, Joseph Smith had sex with other men's wives. There are several lines of evidence for this:

First, in marriage the presumption is that sex occurs, unless we have reason to believe otherwise.

Second, more than one of Joseph Smith's otherwise-married wives explicity stated that she was married to him for "*time* and eternity." Mary Lightner and, if I recall correctly, Patty Sessions specifically indicated this with respect to their marriages to Smith.

Third, the rationale offered for plural marriage was "to raise up seed unto the Lord." If Joseph Smith did *not* have sex with his otherwise-married plural wives, he was flouting the very reason for marrying them.

Fourth, three important evidences indicate that Sylvia Sessions Lyon, legal wife of Windsor P. Lyon, believed her other husband, Joseph Smith, to be the father of her daughter Josephine Lyon. 1) Josephine herself left an affidavit that her mother gave her death-bed testimony that she (Josephine) was Smith's child. Supporting this testimony, Sylvia's Nauvoo friend Mary Ettie V. Smith reported in print that Sylvia had told her she was uncertain whether Windsor Lyon or Joseph Smith was the father of her child. And, notably, she named the child *Josephine*, likely in honor of the suspected father.

Fifth, when Joseph Smith proposed to William Law's wife Jane (a proposal documented in LDS sources as well), it is quite clear that the Laws understood this proposal to include a this-worldly relationship. Law, writing in his journal in April 1844, recorded that Smith had "lately attempted to seduce my wife and found her a virtuous woman."

Sixth, one of the men introduced to polyandrous marriage *by* Joseph Smith appears to have lived with the polyandrous wife. While Orson Hyde was on a mission to Palestine, Smith married Hyde's wife Nancy to Willard Richards. Shortly thereafter, Richards was reported to have been notorious for "Hydeing." And the printer of the Times and Seasons, Ebenezer Robinson, recalled that when the Twelve took over the T&S office, Richards took up living there with Mrs. Hyde. Smith himself performed the marriage between Richards and Nancy Hyde. And when the marriage dissolved a few months later, Smith had Nancy sealed to *himself*!

Given that Smith had "given" Nancy to Richards, Richards' information on how he should and should not relate to her would have come from Smith. So, Smith evidently taught Richards that it was alright (and perhaps expected or required) for him to have sex with an otherwise married 'wife'! Also, it seems unlikely that Richards would cohabit with Nancy when she was *his* polyandrous wife yet Smith would *not*, particularly since Smith was the one who had instructed Richards...


This list of evidences is not exhaustive, but should be sufficient to convince a reasonable and open-minded person that Joseph Smith had sex with at least a significant proportion of his polyandrous wives, if not almost all of them.

Don

Wow, Don! Thank you so much for the information. If I weren't convinced already, I would be after reading your post.

KA

[_Seven]

There are several statements in the polyandry article on FAIR that suggest Joseph's polygamy with married women involved sexual relations. Here is one I posted in an old polyandry thread here.
Quote is from article on FAIR: A TALE OF TWO MARRIAGE SYSTEMS:
PERSPECTIVES ON POLYANDRY AND JOSEPH SMITH

Quote:
Zina wrote of her
feelings in learning of celestial marriage:
When I heard that God had revealed the law of
celestial marriage that we would have the privilege
of associating in family relationships in the
worlds to come. I searched the scripture and by
humble prayer to my Heavenly Father I obtained
a testimony for myself that God had required
that order to be established in this
church. I made a greater sacrifice than to give
my life for I never anticipated again to be looked
upon as an honorable woman by those I dearly
loved but could I compromise conscience lay
aside the sure testimony of the spirit of God for
the Glory of this world after having been baptized
by one having authority and covenanting
at the waters edge to live the life of a saint

If it was only a Law of Adoption sealing, there would be no reason those she dearly loved would look upon her as dishonorable woman. If there were no sexual relations, then why was it a greater sacrifice than to give ones life? Why the repulsion, sickness, searching for signs, fasting and prayer these women and men went through over dynastic relations? I have never seen an apologist address these questions.