Being non-LDS and lacking any meaningful experience whatsoever (sarcasm) with LDS, I've decided to answer your question anyway.
I've known quite a few LDS Mom's over the years and I can actually think of only 3 out of a group of say, 50 ballpark, who worked part time when their children were very young. In those cases:
1. One worked only and specifically when her child was in school. 2. One worked only on weekends when Dad was home. 3. One worked and Dad was a SAHD. (They made the best team I've ever seen)
As their children grew older, I've seen some more of those same Mom's enter the work force on either full or part time basis. Virtually all of the LDS Mom's I've known have been highly involved in their child's out of home experiences such as volunteering in classrooms, parent organizations, scout troops and that sort of thing.
I can't say specifically or even give you a random guess about percentages of educational levels of the LDS women I know. Some have college degrees, are high school graduates and some are college students earning their degrees.
One of the things I appreciate most in LDS women (and this is not to say that it doesn't happen in other churches) is that when babies are born they not only give the woman a baby shower but when Mom comes home with the newborn, they send meals each day and some come to clean house and do laundry if that's desired, and help with transportation to events for older children. Given the fact that many LDS families have quite a few children, that's a godsend in and of itself!
The only discouraging words I ever heard about career women or even women furthering their education were from one LDS Mom and one only.
Jersey Girl
That's good Jersey Girl! I was really asking this because my husband's ex brings this up pretty much on a continual basis. I just thought she was being catty. Which she still might be. I try to ignore her. But it dawned on me that this might have to do with LDS and less me? But it's probably just me. And the fact that my husband is HOT!!!! ;)
Scottveg3 wrote:Well jersey, I can speak from my own childhood experience. My parents had me in activities constantly. I was in youth camps and camping retreats. They wanted me to be as active as possible. So I was nurtured and challenged at every turn. Both my syblings and I turned out well, and still have an excellent relationship with my parents. So in respect to your question, I was nurtured from all directions. My parents when they were home, all the activities and experiences I went on, and my syblings.
I ask again, why does the woman stayed home. First off the whole idea is sexist. If the woman has a great career. Why the hell can't the husband stay home? If someone has to stay home with the kids. Secondly, in our society it isn't practical, for the most part, to expect the mom to stay home. Most families cannot survive on a sinlge income alone.
Personally I think it is good for one parent to be home when kids are little. Mother or Father whatever works. I would have loved to stay home with my kids when they were little. But my earning power far exceeded my wife's due to what we each do for work. But she worked part time when the kids were little and we worked managed around their schedules. And she did it cause she loved her work not for money because we did not need it and her career is a low paying business. As the kids got older she increased her work schedule to fit their school hours. And now she works probably 25-30 hours a week because she likes to.
I would be a liar if I said I was always a ok with this. But I have mostly been ok and while I whine about it some I have also modified my career so she could work where she wanted to work. I even passed other opportunities that would have caused us to move and made it difficult for her to work (she is in a family business).
skippy the dead wrote: Jeepers - I got two degrees from BYU without getting married. But I'm going to go with the "too rebellious" label. I didn't want to marry an LDS man.
I can't tell you how much I hate the "just in case" mentality w.r.t. educating girls. I'd rather see women seek education for their own benefit, not in case their priesthood holder dies or runs away. One of the many reasons I refuse to raise my daughters as LDS.
I agree with you. But I know so many people, male and female, that just get their higher education for job opportunities, not to expand their knowledge.
Don't get me wrong - education for a job is just as valuable. I consider that "for their own benefit" too. I'm just not a big fan of getting it solely as an insurance policy. I see it as a nuance that devalues the woman, and makes it seem as though desiring an education for some other reason (yes, including for career purposes) would be somehow wrong. Believe me, there were plenty of women I went to school with as an undergrad at BYU that had no intention of completing their degrees, or if they did, of actually putting it to any use.
Contrast that with my female classmates at BYU Law - nearly all intended to join the workforce after graduation. Only a few were there for "recreational" purposes. Of course, many were resigned to never marry (and many still have not, nearly 15 years later). And many of us were of a different temperament, fully intending to balance work and family the best we could. This did not, of course, alleviate the open resentment many of us faced from male LDS classmates who were disgusted that us women-folk had taken a male breadwinner's spot in the class (and yes, these were the exact sentiments expressed by quite a few, to our faces).
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe / But at least I'm enjoying the ride.
-Grateful Dead (lyrics by John Perry Barlow)
No barrel. If your passion in life is motherhood. that's wonderful. I just think that motherhood doesn't have to be the only passion a woman is allowed.
Jason's post sums up a lot and maybe speaks to the current situation better than I can. But I can say that when I was a teen and young adult in the late 70's this was more than just encouraged. It was emphasized over and over on all levels. Of course, that was because of the impact of second wave feminism, obviously, but the over-reaction was at hysteria pitch.
I heard it from all kinds of church leaders and authorities: seminary teachers, MIA teachers, speakers at conference. I heard it said to me many times by ward members when I spoke of my ambitions ("that's all very well, but you'll never find true happiness unless..."). I was at best "confused" and at worst "evil."
I remember a local U of U women's conference of some kind circa 1976. It was very generic for the time: lots of speakers addressing broadly construed "women's issues," some kind of art exhibit, and possibly a concert. The keynote speaker was the former Utah first lady: former Governor Calvin Ramption's wife, Lucy Beth. She was currently pursuing a master's in anthropology and her talk was about how glad she was to see that young women today have lots of different options in terms of education, work and paths in life: more than she had generations ago. She spoke about how satisfying it was to her to take her anthropology classes, even "late in life," and she encouraged all women to explore their hopes, dreams, ambitions.
It was a very benign speech.
After her talk the President of the Relief Society spoke. Her speech started something like this, "It is foolish to assume that young women have a new range of choices about their lives because only by being wives and mothers will they ever find true happiness and fulfill themselves. We may think it is otherwise, but we are only fooling ourselves if we make other choices about our lives."
It was an incredibly arrogant and insulting speech to make after Mrs. Ramption's.
Of course this was around the time of the ERA scandal and the insanity over the International Women's Year Conference, too. I believe that Marilyn Warenski has written about this era: or at least I know that her oral history research about it is available in the archives of the Utah Historical Society. I haven't read any of it, but I mean to at some point since these incidents had a great deal of impact on me and I saw them up close (I was at the IWY conference, for example, and was one of the student journalists who covered the ERA debate in the state legislature and was there for the vote
A lot has changed. My oldest daughter attends BYU. She just finished a masters thesis. She is married and has been for four years and no kids yet. She is as I type in England presenting her thesis at a symposium in England. She plans to take a year or two break, is working on getting a job in Italy teaching english and then perhaps going on for a PhD. Her BYU professors are very much behind her. She tells me that while many females she knows at BYU are opting to have kids and stay home she knows a lot of women like her as well that want to pursue education and career. Her husband did not want education beyond a BS degree and now works. He is very supportive of her desires and it seems to work for them.
harmony wrote:Girls in YW's are currently taught to seek an education, so that in the event they will not find a mate, they will at least be employable. They are taught from the first lesson each fall (Evening in White) that marriage is the goal, so our girls who graduate from BYU-I or BYU-Provo without having gotten married are pitied and looked down upon as socially inept or too rebellious. Some of our brightest minds are judged as lacking simply because they wish to pursue a career rather than a marriage at 21 years old.
We are stuck in the 50's because all of our leadership is from that generation. Hopefully we will see some improvements, as our leaders now move on to the next life.
About 10 years ago a General Relief Society Pres spoke in our stake. When asked what the most important thing to teach YW she said teach them to be succesfully single because if they decide to only marry someone who can take them to the temple 1/3 of them will end up single.
Jason, that's great that your daughter is so highly motivated and she has the support of her family and husband behind her. As a culture though I don't think that that is the norm.
Jersey, please don't take this the wrong way. But, you aren't Mormon and you didn't grow up in the church or this enviornment. Right. So knowing lots of Mormon woman is very different then being a Mormon woman.
Scottveg3 wrote:Jason, that's great that your daughter is so highly motivated and she has the support of her family and husband behind her. As a culture though I don't think that that is the norm.
Jersey, please don't take this the wrong way. But, you aren't Mormon and you didn't grow up in the church or this enviornment. Right. So knowing lots of Mormon woman is very different then being a Mormon woman.
Oh, I see. A non-Mormon isn't allowed to respond to a post with information regarding the OP. Is that correct?
Seriously, I don't understand your comment in relation to the list I offered to the OP. Do I have to BE a Mormon woman to comment on the LDS women that I know? I'd disagree with you on that count.
Having served LDS families for a number of years in my field, worked closesly with them and maintained close relationships with some of them and been their confidant for a likewise number of years, does give one the right to comment on their own observations.
What part of my comments requires one to have grown up in the LDS environment? I'd like you to repost it and address it when you have time. And when you have time, I'd like you to answer the question that I posed to you.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
lol Have you been saving that diatribe to launch at someone who questions why you should be an authority on Mormonism? Sounds rehearsed.
To go to each of your points:
"Oh, I see. A non-Mormon isn't allowed to respond to a post with information regarding the OP. Is that correct?"
Obviously not. This is a free country. You are welcome to make any statement regarding how you think Mormon lives are run from your point of view. All I said was that being a Mormon and watching Mormons from outside is very different.
"Seriously, I don't understand your comment in relation to the list I offered to the OP. Do I have to BE a Mormon woman to comment on the LDS women that I know? I'd disagree with you on that count."
You are just reiterating your point of view. see above.
"Having served LDS families for a number of years in my field, worked closesly with them and maintained close relationships with some of them and been their confidant for a likewise number of years, does give one the right to comment on their own observations. What part of my comments requires one to have grown up in the LDS environment? I'd like you to repost it and address it when you have time. And when you have time, I'd like you to answer the question that I posed to you."[/quote]
You are stating the same thing again. see above.
from a earlier post..
"have a question just out of curiosity and try not to read more into it then what there is. Here goes...
If Mom and Dad are working at their careers...who would you choose to do the taking care of and nuturing while they're at work for let's say...9-10 hours a day (including time there for travel) ?" Jersey Girl
I have answered this one already in my earlier posts. I said that, from my personal experiences, I received nurturing from many resources.
also I apoligize. I am learning how to quote correctly. So bear with me.