LDS and stay at home moms?

[_Jersey Girl]

7

There was a study I saw once that showed the children who performed best in school came from homes where the mothers level of education was higher than the other mothers.

There are many factors in school success, level of education being one of them. You're exactly right there. Likewise level of involvement on the part of at least one parent in the child's academic experience and income level as well. None of those are absolutes but certainly major factors on a broad scale.

[_Jersey Girl]

Just picked up this link quickly....

http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/indicators/7EarlySchoolReadiness.cfm

[_Polygamy Porter]

Yes PP LDS have all the problems everyone else does. But like it or not stastics show they have a lower rate of these things especially among active LDS.

Curlome dung.

Put up or shut up.

Back up your statement with factual data please.

[Anonymous]

Seven,

I loved your above post because you brought up so many underlying social issues such as the husband who might feel put on the spot if his wife were working outside the home. I personally, don't think that a couple should feel a need to defend their choices to anyone so long as the children's needs are being addressed. There is an aspect in LDS culture that you drew attention to in your post...the need for some to lay "blame" or criticize others.

Hi Jersey Girl, :)

There were so many times when I would be discussing very normal things about my kids, like temper tantrums, crying, etc. and my sister in laws would always find a way to take a jab at me. One time when my daughter was going through a stage of being "daddy's girl" one SIL told me "well, she is with her Daddy more now that you work. You knew that would happen didn't you?" Then when another kid was throwing a normal "terrible twos" fit, a SIL said "she just wants her Mommy to be home with her and she's letting you know." These kind of comments happened everytime I was togther with the inlaws. My mother in law was the most offensive. She would tell me stories of families she knew that had children who turned out terrible and always ended it with "well, the mother worked and so the children were neglected."

I have seen these kind of harsh judgments from non LDS too but it's much more common in Mormon culture. One of my LDS inlaws chose to work full time and loved it. She put her kids in daycare and had no intention of quitting. It caused so much contention with her husband because of this pressure to have her home. (and the house was a bit messy) My TBM inlaws said some of the nastiest things about her and would look for things wrong with her marriage and children. They would often say it right in front of me, all the while knowing that I worked too. I would try to find ways to remind them that I only worked part time, that my kids were not in daycare, and that my family came first etc. I often felt like I was on the defense with them and they would pretend that they weren't implying anything about me. They would further degrade this poor girl by telling all of us that their son (her husband) was "a good mother." She was thought of as disobedient to the counsel from church leaders and neglectful of her family. Each time I would hear them bash her, it made me very insecure about what they were saying about me when I wasn't around. I could write a book on how judgemental my inlaws are.

As more LDS mothers work outside of the home, I think some of the attitudes will improve with time. But right now with my generation, there is a lot of guilt and a need to explain to other LDS why we would need another job besides that of a mother. There has to be a really valid reason for them. You would never say to other LDS stay at home moms that you are working because you love your career unless you want to be thought of as a neglectful, selfish mother. You will hear other LDS women talk about other Moms who work by giving reasons,even when nobody asked them to: "oh, she has to work right now because her husband lost his job" or "she's a single Mom so that is why she works..."

[_Polygamy Porter]

that's the point - nowhere to run if they are in an abusive relationship.

But women in the LDS Church are encouraged to get eduacated today so that blows that fallacy out of the water.

Lip service only.

While some YW leaders may encourage college it is not on the top of the list, nor even near the top. The number one thing that they are INSTRUCTED to do is marry in the temple and have children. Then there is the social structure. Ask any 24+ year old SINGLE woman how they are received in their home wards, both by the old hags and their already-been-married-for-five-years peers.

[_Seven]

Seven,

I loved your above post because you brought up so many underlying social issues such as the husband who might feel put on the spot if his wife were working outside the home.

I don't particularly think that's peculiar to Mormon culture but it does seem to be more highly concentrated in that situation. We regularly see public debate on what role women and men should take in our society and what path they should follow with regards to parenting.

One thing that is unique to LDS is the pressure on the men to have their wives stay at home. What is so interesting to me is my non LDS friends and family have husbands that encourage their wives to work and almost require it. One of my former LDS family members wanted to stay home with her baby and tried everything to work it out. Her husband (not Mormon) was against it and refused to change their lifestyle like she desired. He would rather their baby be in daycare than her stay home. It was purely a financial issue for them and I see this with many other non LDS families. The men almost expect their wives to work and don't want to downgrade their lifestyle. It is not something I have ever seen in LDS culture. My TBM DH was begging me to quit my job, even though we were not in a financial position to. It was a huge burden for him to have me work. (and I was only out of the home 20 hours a week) The constant comments from his family and the pressures he felt of not being the sole provider so I could raise our children really got to him. He also saw how hard it was on the kids when they missed me and cried for me often. As soon as I quit he was a different person. It was better for our marriage and he has been much happier.

I love being at home with my children so it wasn't too painful giving up my career, but it did feel good sometimes to have something else besides the role of mother and the adult interaction was a nice break. I will admit that it wasn't the best thing for my children or marriage working out of the home. If I had a maid, cook, and nanny it could have worked, but trying to do it all wore me down and I realized it wasn't possible at this stage in my life to do it all. I don't know how mothers who work full time do it. I couldn't keep up with the laundry working part time and my DH helped me as much as he could.

[_Polygamy Porter]

A lot has changed. My oldest daughter attends BYU. She just finished a masters thesis. She is married and has been for four years and no kids yet. She is as I type in England presenting her thesis at a symposium in England. She plans to take a year or two break, is working on getting a job in Italy teaching english and then perhaps going on for a PhD. Her BYU professors are very much behind her. She tells me that while many females she knows at BYU are opting to have kids and stay home she knows a lot of women like her as well that want to pursue education and career. Her husband did not want education beyond a BS degree and now works. He is very supportive of her desires and it seems to work for them.

that's wonderful Jason.

<Mormon mindset>
I guess she was too busy seeking after the riches of the world to attend this wonderful fireside by an apostle of the Lord: Don't put off having children by Elder Russell M. Nelson.

"He urged college students in the Marriott Center at Brigham Young University and gathered in LDS Institutes of Religion around the world to visualize their life in 50 years. By then, careers would be over and faith and families would be their focal points.
"Broad minds and narrow waists would have traded places," he said.

Its too bad she is not following the counsel of the anointed leaders of the only true and living gospel of Jesus Christ. Then again, look at the example set by her father.. who openly questions the leaders of Christs Kingdom on earth.

It must be a real shame when she shows up to your ward and everyone notices that after four long years of marriage, she STILL does not have children... tsk tsk... All she wants to talk about is how important she is and ALL of the education she has... She should be reminded that "No success outside of the home can compensate for failure in the home"

It would be a real shame if Brother Borne does not live long enough to enjoy grandchildren from her... and her poor husband being forced to wait to enjoy the blessings of being a preisthood holding father...

Then again, perhaps most will assume she has a medical problem.

</Mormon mindset>

[_Scottveg3]

scottveg3,

One last series of comments to you because I don't expect you to engage in any sort of fruitful discourse here. Nowhere in my comments on this thread have I claimed to know first hand what it is like to be an LDS woman.

I supplied factual answers based on what one might consider to be a random sampling of a group of approximately 50 or so LDS women and their family circumstances (working history, volunteerism, parenting constructs) that I've served and "lived with" for (in this group) about 16 years now. I know them professionally and on a casual basis. My comments about them are no less valid than your assertions regarding parenting. Are you a parent?

Your characterizing my comments and questions to you as launching a "diatribe" is an indication to me that you don't wish for anyone to ask you to explain your comments. In a perfect world, that might be so. Not so, on a board like this that is set up for the purpose of discussion.

Whether or not you've thought about it, experienced it or acknowledge it, you give no indication tht you understand what the nature of a relationships or multiple relationships between non-LDS and LDS women (or men for that matter) would consist of or what information/knowledge/observations one might gather as a confidant (camp on that word for a second) to LDS Mom's. That is to say, as the recipient of confidential information shared between women either in a professional or casual situation.

I know all too well, the pressure that some LDS Mom's feel to keep home and family life in top order, fulfill multiple callings and earn income when that is the case. Given the importance that some LDS place on appearances, who do you think they unload their worries and complaints on?

It is not uncommon at all for a member to share their stresses and even their doubts with someone who is outside of their church, knowing that the comments will be kept confidential and away from the church group and not circulated amongst the entire Ward.

Even on boards like these, scottveg3 where people choose anonymity so that they can express themselves freely, people still sometimes wish to have someone to "walk" with them as they examine their doubts. But what would I know about that...

Jersey Girl

Um you attacked me in the first paragraph. But, that's fine.

I realize that you have a cosmic connection of a sorts with Mormon families. You have worked with them intimately and have seen hundreds of families/women travel to different countries. that's great. Wasn't my point though. When you have a family it is difficult to do things such as travel for long periods of time. So having a child may put a stop to that sort of goal. Also, you asked if I have had children of my own. I don't and I never spoke from that perspective. I said what it was like growing up in my own family with two working parents and I speculated on the difficulties of having huge dreams and raising families..

Furthermore, what exactly is your stance on this issue. spelled out plainly. You have said how close a connection you have had with Mormon familes. Fine. and you have seen many happy Mormon familes. Great. so is the Mormon wife meant to be in the home or not? Running through the previous posts I am honestly not sure. And I would appreciate it, if you don't attack me and spout on how I am obviously not reading the posts or whatever. I am. I just thinkyou are being unclear.

[_Jersey Girl]

scottveg3,

This comment that I made:

I've known literally hundreds of parents who were able to visit and live in foreign countries wit their children.

Had absolutely nothing at all to do with LDS families in particular. It was a response to your comment about parenting early in life and your desire to visit or live in another country; that you wouldn't be able to do it were you a parent at your age.

[_Jason Bourne]

Yes PP LDS have all the problems everyone else does. But like it or not stastics show they have a lower rate of these things especially among active LDS.

Curlome dung.

Put up or shut up.

Back up your statement with factual data please.

You put up or shut up. Why should I work to provide you with data to refute your baseless anecdotes.