The Origin of FAIR/MAD

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Don't inflame the Scroatchii.

Still name-calling, I see. Sorry, but it ain't gonna deflect from your exposure as a gossip.

[_Yoda]

The statement of Dan's that I'd like him to explain is how, in his opinion, that thread typified what was so wrong with ZLMB. Did you notice the critics calling names or some such? I didn't, but maybe I should reread it to see what was so horrible about it that it demonstrated why believers could no longer tolerate Z and fled to FAIR.

Beastie---This thread is so blasted long, I'm having a hard time locating Dan's quote that you're referring to. Did he make that claim on this thread here, or while he was actually at Z?

His comments on this incident here have been rather benign, so if he stated this, I am also interested in why he said it.

What say ye, Dr. Peterson?

[_harmony]

For the people who keep saying they want this thread to end: stop posting on it. Whining about the thread isn't going to make the thread stop dead in its tracks. Be the poster you want everyone else to be.

For everyone else who is still interested in the topic: carry on as usual.

[_enigm0]

ZLMB died because of limitations put on posters in the form of:

1. Limited number of postings you could make.
2. If someone challenged someone like Dr. Peterson repeatedly to back up their claims with evidence and didn't accept Dan's usual jokes as adequate, they were sent an email from the administrator and their posting privileges were taken away temporarily and eventually permanently.

Generally speaking, it was a difficult atmosphere for apologists simply because they rely mostly on non-verifiable and scientifically unsound confirmations of "truth". Several of them admitted this was indeed true....that just based on the scientifically evaluated evidences, they were hurting, but when coupled with spiritual confirmations, they prevailed. What often occurred is what is occurring in this thread and I imagine has been occurring for years now. That being, apologists like Dan Peterson when challenged to back up his claims or give his opinion/position on a particularly troubling subject, resorts to jokes and obfuscation and the issue fizzles away.

ZLMB died because participants were muzzled and the content filtered.

E-0

[_beastie]

liz, he made it on the Z thread (page 20)

The comments were made on the Z thread. I’ve asked Daniel what he meant a couple of times, but he doesn’t want to reread the thread in question.

Here were some of his comments that demonstrate, for whatever reason, he thought that this particular Z thread typified all that was wrong with Z:

Tom Murphy's absolute innocence and inerrancy must be defended at all costs. Those who doubt his flawlessness must be discredited.

No strenuous effort, no twists of logic, no sneering, no method of discrediting those who criticize him -- nothing is to be omitted if it will serve the Greater Cause.

This certainly seems to imply support of Julian and her crew, and states that the criticisms against the crew were based on “twists of logic, sneering, discrediting”.

Desperate Obscurantism

Watching the antics of Mr. Shades and Harmony/Serenity/WAZing and enigm0 on this thread, several words come to mind:

casuistry, in the negative sense -- correct, but too highbrow

jesuitical, in the negative sense -- also correct, but far too highbrow

sophistry -- pretty good

interminable -- accurate, but hardly adequate

evasive -- almost there

obfuscation -- precisely right

There are others, but those will do.

It has been an extraordinarily disgusting performance, and I find it difficult to believe that it has been done in good faith. Such studied and long-winded absurdity threatens to ruin ZLMB, if, indeed, it hasn't already done so.

Oh yes. Here's another:

Adios

Juliann agreed:

FT: It has been an extraordinarily disgusting performance, and I find it difficult to believe that it has been done in good faith. Such studied and long-winded absurdity threatens to ruin ZLMB, if, indeed, it hasn't already done so.

Juliann: ZLMB is dead. When it comes to the point that putting up lecture notes is not allowed by the resident hucksters, it's a pretty sad state of affairs.

The spectacle of Harmony bragging about running off posters that attracted dialogue is pretty disgusting.

That's what I find so interesting about the Z thread. Yes, Juliann and her posse were caught fabricating evidence, and then, when caught, insisted - along with myriad other believers, including Daniel - that those who had exposed the fabrication were vile hucksters. That's interesting, but not striking, in my opinion. What IS striking is that THIS thread, in particular, typified SOMETHING to people like Juliann and DCP that demonstrated everything wrong with Z, and why FAIR was preferable.

As I stated before, I have zero, and I mean ZERO doubt that the mods at FAIR would have shut down that thread LONG before the truth finally came out. It would have been "asked and answered. Thread closed".

[_Blixa]

Juliann: ZLMB is dead. When it comes to the point that putting up lecture notes is not allowed by the resident hucksters, it's a pretty sad state of affairs.

Who on earth was "not allowing" this? If anything people were asking to see them (and trying to determine if they were the aforementioned courtroom-style "transcript").

Its really hallucinatory.

[_Yoda]

Juliann: ZLMB is dead. When it comes to the point that putting up lecture notes is not allowed by the resident hucksters, it's a pretty sad state of affairs.

Who on earth was "not allowing" this? If anything people were asking to see them (and trying to determine if they were the aforementioned courtroom-style "transcript").

Its really hallucinatory.

Exactly! It seems to me that all the Z board did was allow Juliann, Jan, and the gang to effectively hang themselves in public.

FAIR definitely has a more "womb-like" feel for apologists (particularly the ones in charge).

As I stated before, I have zero, and I mean ZERO doubt that the mods at FAIR would have shut down that thread LONG before the truth finally came out. It would have been "asked and answered. Thread closed".

You are absolutely right about that!

Now that we have these statements brought to the forefront, I'm genuinely interested in Dr. Peterson's take. He's traveling until next week, so we'll have to resurface this when he returns.

[_Bond...James Bond]

So has this "transcript" ever showed up in any way shape or form? You'd figure they'd get something cobbled together in three years.

[_harmony]

Quoting Daniel: "Watching the antics of Mr. Shades and Harmony/Serenity/WAZing and enigm0 on this thread, several words come to mind... ":

Juliann agreed:

"The spectacle of Harmony bragging about running off posters that attracted dialogue is pretty disgusting."

Please note, for those who were not privy to this thread and who have not been privy to Daniel's behavior for literally years: I am guilty of requesting the transcript; I am guilty of pushing Juliann into a corner and forcing her to admit that no transcript existed. I am not guilty of sophistry or lying, as accused by Daniel. All I did was ask for the transcript... repeatedly, and I got nailed pretty hard for it.

[_harmony]

So has this "transcript" ever showed up in any way shape or form? You'd figure they'd get something cobbled together in three years.

None was ever produced for anyone on the boards to see.