DCP's Joseph Smith?????s Doctrines and Early Christianity

[_The Nehor]

kind of like the last 10 September dawn MMM threads over at MA&D -- kinda like that ??

Yeah, pretty much like that

[_Calculus Crusader]

It never ceases to amaze me how LDS apologists will sift through anything, even religions they condemn as heretical, untrue or "abominations", to find even the tiniest, most irrelevant bit of information that they can spin to lend credence to their quasi-cult. It's absolutely hilarious!

It reminds me of a TV show I thought of once for a religious audience: Junkyard Apologetics Mega-Wars. Apologists from freaky religions like Scientology, JW's, Mormons, etc., meet to put together scraps of odd archaeological finds, ancient texts, Sci-Fi books, Oprah reruns - anything to prove their respective religions true. A little chiasmus here, an NHM there, and voilà! The Church is TRUE!

Thanks for your synopsis, Trinity! You took one for the team by attending the lecture and we thank you!

KA

Right. One of their own, Kent Jackson, criticized Hugh Nibley for doing just that.

[_Blixa]

Thanks for the synopsis, Trinity. I'm sorry I missed the FAIR conference, myself. Oh well...

[_KimberlyAnn]

It never ceases to amaze me how LDS apologists will sift through anything, even religions they condemn as heretical, untrue or "abominations", to find even the tiniest, most irrelevant bit of information that they can spin to lend credence to their quasi-cult. It's absolutely hilarious!

It reminds me of a TV show I thought of once for a religious audience: Junkyard Apologetics Mega-Wars. Apologists from freaky religions like Scientology, JW's, Mormons, etc., meet to put together scraps of odd archaeological finds, ancient texts, Sci-Fi books, Oprah reruns - anything to prove their respective religions true. A little chiasmus here, an NHM there, and voilà! The Church is TRUE!

Thanks for your synopsis, Trinity! You took one for the team by attending the lecture and we thank you!

KA

Right. One of their own, Kent Jackson, criticized Hugh Nibley for doing just that.

Thank you, Calculus Crusader! I enjoyed reading that article.

KA

[_Dr. Shades]

Thanks for the synopsis, Trinity. I'm sorry I missed the FAIR conference, myself. Oh well...

They were talking about BYU's annual Education Week, not the FAIR conference. (Right?)

[_Trinity]

To a couple of comments. I did not get the sense that DCP was playing to a persecution complex at all. In the us vs them equation, he definitely sided more with idea that LDS theology was vastly superior and therefore any critical opposition was paling and pathetic by comparison.

Likewise, I got no sense that DCP was insincere or lying at all. Of course, he was in his element and very comfortable speaking to the group...which he should be given his professional stature. Even if he didn't believe what he was saying, this class was not the venue where this would have come out. If DCP is a lying disbeliever parading as an apologetic TBM, its at a far deeper level then any of us would ever see. As such, I will believe he is what he says he is.

To the oohs and ahhhs. There were a few whoahs thrown in as well. And nearly all of them were associated with key LDS terminologies that were being highlighted in these various texts and ancient sources. A few terms eliciting vocal sound from the audience:

*"divine consort", a helpmate for God (DCP says "gee, where have we heard of this before? and that was the extent of the elaboration)

*Melchizedek priesthood

*Levels of heaven, with use of word celestial.

*Any terminology related to temple work: washings/anointings, priest/priestess, gods and goddesses. Any and all deification comments referring to the fact man can become a god, and fundamental aspects about the Creation, baptism for the dead. (As a sidenote, DCP surprised me by commenting that modern biblical scholars are now saying that Cor 15:29 is accurately reflecting baptism for the dead)

*How the JST translation is now being taken seriously by biblical scholars because Joseph's modifications tapped into seams that the scholars are just now beginning to realize exist in the traditional texts.

And lastly, no, I did not go up and introduce myself. It was a large crowd, DCP did not show up until literally 3 minutes before the class started, and I was very pressed for time afterwards. Otherwise, I probably would have gone up and introduced myself. DCP real life persona seems likable and approachable enough. I sincerely doubt he would have attempted to throw holy water on me.

[_Trinity]

Thanks for the synopsis, Trinity. I'm sorry I missed the FAIR conference, myself. Oh well...

They were talking about BYU's annual Education Week, not the FAIR conference. (Right?)

Yes Shades. This was BYU Education Week.

[_richardMdBorn]

*Any terminology related to temple work: washings/anointings, priest/priestess, gods and goddesses. Any and all deification comments referring to the fact man can become a god, and fundamental aspects about the Creation, baptism for the dead. (As a sidenote, DCP surprised me by commenting that modern biblical scholars are now saying that Cor 15:29 is accurately reflecting baptism for the dead)

Nobody disputes that I Cor 15:29 reflects baptism for the dead. The issue is whether that was a practice of the Christians or their pagan neighbors.

[_Blixa]

Thanks for the synopsis, Trinity. I'm sorry I missed the FAIR conference, myself. Oh well...

They were talking about BYU's annual Education Week, not the FAIR conference. (Right?)

Yes, I know, I was just wishing aloud that I'd gotten a taste at the apologetic smorgasboard. Education Week at BYU would probably have been too rich for my palate.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Interesting to see how the presentation came across to a reasonably bright but also rather hostile member of the audience.

Thanks!