Hoops wrote:That's quite interesting, PP. Thanks. I am unaware of this phenomonen. While I am in no position to agree nor disagree, do others here agree with your assessment?
I think PP is pretty much dead on.
Nehor, you are an anomally.
I was a chapel Mormon all my life. It was all or nothing for me. I towed the line. The things I did not understand, I shelved and believed there would be an explanation someday. But after discovering so many hidden lies and abominations among the explanations, I opted out. Perhaps I am the very elect that is spoken of in the scriptures. I did all the right things until I turned about 42. My principles have not changed. I still call a lie what it is.
I know some very devout TBM's, that when they come to know what I know, they'll be gone too. Mitt will play an integral part in creating the right environment for TBM's to be exposed to what I have been infected with.
It becomes ever more obvious to me that, at least for now during the pre-primary season, Mitt Romney is totally, utterly, and even completely cow-towing to the Religious Right, often in complete contradiction to earlier stances he held on various issue. Dropping Larry Craig like a hot potato is simply recognizing that to the Religious Right, gay people are an abomination, and Larry Craig, all protestations aside, must be at least half-gay to be cruising for guys in the bathroom. Ew, Larry Craig's a f*g? That won't play well in Alabama, will it? So he's gone, post haste.
It's sad. Larry Craig really screwed the pooch on this one. Now that I no longer fear and hate gays (which I actually did do in my much-earlier TBM years, say, up into my mid to late 20s), I could really not care less if Larry Craig is in fact a closet flamer, or at least bi. But it really pisses me off that he's so sanctimoniously an enemy, politically, of gays, and yet he's cruising for them in private. And then he has the temerity to plead guilty to soliciting gay sex from a guy in the airport bathroom, and then drag his wife in front of a camera and proclaim angrily that he is ... not .... gay. What a jerk. But does being a jerk like this, and the commission of a misdemeanor, justify Mitt Romney's campaign pretending that he's never even actually existed? Editing out statements and articles from before, and leaving the original dates, with no notice of editing, where Craig references are excised in a total revision of campaign history, is just way too low.
I agree with The Dude. Mitt Romney is a political dink. I simply cannot find myself liking him politically.
Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Inconceivable wrote:I think PP is pretty much dead on.
Nehor, you are an anomally. I was a chapel Mormon all my life. It was all or nothing for me. I towed the line. The things I did not understand, I shelved and believed there would be an explanation someday. But after discovering so many hidden lies and abominations among the explanations, I opted out. Perhaps I am the very elect that is spoken of in the scriptures. I did all the right things until I turned about 42. My principles have not changed. I still call a lie what it is.
I know some very devout TBM's, that when they come to know what I know, they'll be gone too. Mitt will play an integral part in creating the right environment for TBM's to be exposed to what I have been infected with.
I find it amazing that you know so many others so well that you KNOW their faith will break.
I'm not an anomaly. There are many like me.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Hoops wrote:That's quite interesting, PP. Thanks. I am unaware of this phenomonen. While I am in no position to agree nor disagree, do others here agree with your assessment?
If I were you I would not rely on the lies and nonesense that spew out of the distorted and twisted bitter mind of PP. He is full of a lot of BS.
I think you are wrong. I know the people he describes. I know many non LDS. Most of both camps never act like he says. He creates charercterizations that are more cartoon then anything.
Nehor, you are an anomally.
He may be but so what? He knows the people you talk about.
I was a chapel Mormon all my life. It was all or nothing for me. I towed the line. The things I did not understand, I shelved and believed there would be an explanation someday. But after discovering so many hidden lies and abominations among the explanations, I opted out. Perhaps I am the very elect that is spoken of in the scriptures. I did all the right things until I turned about 42. My principles have not changed. I still call a lie what it is.
So what? So was I. I never viewed the world they way he describes nor did 95% of the non LDS i know view the Church the way he says. Most don't know a hell of a lot about LDS at all.
. Mitt will play an integral part in creating the right environment for TBM's to be exposed to what I have been infected with.
As the campaign has developed we really see very little of what ya all crow about here. I doubt it will be more then it is now. No real big deal.
I think you are wrong. I know the people he describes. I know many non LDS. Most of both camps never act like he says. He creates charercterizations that are more cartoon then anything.
Nehor, you are an anomally.
He may be but so what? He knows the people you talk about.
I was a chapel Mormon all my life. It was all or nothing for me. I towed the line. The things I did not understand, I shelved and believed there would be an explanation someday. But after discovering so many hidden lies and abominations among the explanations, I opted out. Perhaps I am the very elect that is spoken of in the scriptures. I did all the right things until I turned about 42. My principles have not changed. I still call a lie what it is.
So what? So was I. I never viewed the world they way he describes nor did 95% of the non LDS I know view the Church the way he says. Most don't know a hell of a lot about LDS at all.
. Mitt will play an integral part in creating the right environment for TBM's to be exposed to what I have been infected with.
As the campaign has developed we really see very little of what ya all crow about here. I doubt it will be more then it is now. No real big deal.
Jason Thanx for the post. I happen to be in the PP, Incon, Hoops camp. I do believe that there are Jasons and Nehors out there, but I believe that they are very much out numbered by chapel Mormons as priviously described. I came from that pattern until I was about 35 years old.
I do believe that Mitt is a dink, but that doesn't matter, most of the candidates are dinks in my book. But the dink Mitt is going to expose the church to more and more publicity. We can debate whether that publicity will be more positive than negative. I tend to think that it will be more negative because the publicity will expose things that the church would rather not have exposed or at least it will be exposed in a manner that the church would not prefer.
I some ways, as I look at the field of candidates, I am not sure that Mitt would not make a good Pres. Defining "good" as: in comparison to what we have had for decades (mostly a poor showing for the most part) and my personal opinion that basically the only difference between a Repub and a Demo is "one is in and the other is trying to get in".
The publicity is coming now in a manner that is not controlled by the church and more is coming. I do think this is problematic for the church.
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
Jason Bourne wrote:As the campaign has developed we really see very little of what ya all crow about here. I doubt it will be more then it is now. No real big deal.
This will totally change if Mitt wins. Remember the massive anti-Clinton paranoia with all the Clinton conspiracy theorists out there saying how many people he'd had killed and whatnot? Well, they'll all be digging up anti-Mormon stuff if Mitt wins. You know that Godmakers kind of naïve anti-Mormon conspiracy theory crap? There will be ten times as many websites, if not more, as there are now telling this kind of stuff. Being president seems to really focus a lot of folks' attention on you, and with so much juicy material available in the early history of Mormonism, it'll be like a field day to the delusional fringe. You'll see both true, and untrue anti-Mormon stuff. To an extent the church might be vindicated by the obvious falseness of all the really made-up anti-Mormon stuff, however they'll take a pounding from all the true stuff. It's beyond doubt that there's a segment of the population who really gets into anti-President stuff, with both Clinton and GW Bush having their camps of really intense detractors. Well, there will be an anti-Romney camp, if he wins, except they'll be digging out juicy little morsels like Fanny Alger, for their websites.
Bottom line is that Mitt Romney believes, in the eyes of a lot of people who either know this now, or who will know it once he's President, that a young Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God, who used a magic rock in a hat to translate golden plates that we don't have today because an angel "took them back", and that this same guy sent men away on missions and then "married" and had sex with their wives while they were gone, and that he racked up 30-40+ "spiritual wives" during his lifetime, and lied about it to his wife, and the public, and invented whole volumes of scripture that are transparently fake (the Book of Abraham, whatever the mopologists think, is, to anyone not up to their necks in Mormonism, transparently fake). It will be a case of our own United States president believing in this guy, who Richard Dawkins calls a transparent fraud, a charlatan, a mountebank. Dawkins' view will be shared by a lot more people if Mitt Romney wins, and a lot of the creepiness and just plain laughable charlatanry of early Mormonism becomes more well known.
Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen