The testimony: An Emotional Lie

[_Scottie]

(Of course, I'll have to have DirecTV for the football!)

Well, that goes without saying!! ;)

[_Nephi]

What compromising was seen by the US government when it came to the current conflict in Iraq? Hell, the rest of the the WORLD was telling us what we were about to do was wrong, and yet we went in guns blazing for what? Nothing... These people are NOT better off. Instead of having to worry about a tyrant (Hussien) killing them, they have to worry about their neighbor killing them. The rate of death in Iraq is now much greater than it was before the war. And the US was not willing to compromise about ANYTHING on this.

Would you please give your references for your statements that 1) These people are NOT better off, and 2) the rate of death is now much greater than it was before the war.

Thanks.

My statement about them not being better off is that one of our main reasons we invaded was because Hussien was a tyrant, and killed his civilians without just cause (ie, its my opinion, and a statement like that is obviously an opinion statement). As for your CFR for your 2nd question, see this washington post article...

Based on the number of Iraqi fatalities recorded by the survey teams, the researchers calculated that the death rate since the invasion had increased from 5 percent annually to 7.9 percent. That works out to an excess of about 100,000 deaths since the war, the researchers reported in a paper released early by the Lancet, a British medical journal.

[_barrelomonkeys]

Mormonism promises a better way of life, strong moral and ethical codes, a strong community, welfare, a sense of purpose

Better than what?

[_barrelomonkeys]

Nephi, we don't live in a democracy.

The Constitution (I include the Bill of Rights when I say Constitution) is working just fine. Just because part of the populace disagrees with legislation or rulings does not translate to a Constitution that is being ignored.

As a matter of fact that there is debate, rulings, legislation means the Constitution is being closely followed. If there needs to be adjustments made to policies and legislation that'll be worked out too in due course.

[_Nephi]

Nephi, we don't live in a democracy.

The Constitution (I include the Bill of Rights when I say Constitution) is working just fine. Just because part of the populace disagrees with legislation or rulings does not translate to a Constitution that is being ignored.

As a matter of fact that there is debate, rulings, legislation means the Constitution is being closely followed. If there needs to be adjustments made to policies and legislation that'll be worked out too in due course.

I agree with all you say. I am playing devil's advocate here. Its very easy to look upon the system and say, "well because of this, that, and the other, this system is evil and wrong," just like others can look upon the LDS faith and say the same thing. In life, we are all biased, and see what we want and throw the rest away.... But leading this back into the original discussion, this is solid evidence that a testimony is not an inherent lie just because someone thinks its founded upon lies.

We who live in the US all have a testimony of the US government and this way of life, but many out there believe it to be false and a lie. This doesn't make it so. Therefore a testimony of anything (regardless) is not inherently a lie, but merely what one uses to support their belief in something that is highly opinionated.

[_barrelomonkeys]

Nephi, we don't live in a democracy.

The Constitution (I include the Bill of Rights when I say Constitution) is working just fine. Just because part of the populace disagrees with legislation or rulings does not translate to a Constitution that is being ignored.

As a matter of fact that there is debate, rulings, legislation means the Constitution is being closely followed. If there needs to be adjustments made to policies and legislation that'll be worked out too in due course.

I agree with all you say. I am playing devil's advocate here. Its very easy to look upon the system and say, "well because of this, that, and the other, this system is evil and wrong," just like others can look upon the LDS faith and say the same thing. In life, we are all biased, and see what we want and throw the rest away.... But leading this back into the original discussion, this is solid evidence that a testimony is not an inherent lie just because someone thinks its founded upon lies.

We who live in the US all have a testimony of the US government and this way of life, but many out there believe it to be false and a lie. This doesn't make it so. Therefore a testimony of anything (regardless) is not inherently a lie, but merely what one uses to support their belief in something that is highly opinionated.

Ah, that's what I get for skimming a thread. Gotcha!

;)

[_SatanWasSetUp]

Therefore a testimony of anything (regardless) is not inherently a lie, but merely what one uses to support their belief in something that is highly opinionated.

I would go further and say a testimony within Mormonism is simply an opinion, and I guess opinions aren't lies. The confusion comes when Mormons say they "know" the church is true. To Mormons, saying that they "know" really means they "believe" the church is true. It's the wording that makes it sound like a lie.

[_Some Schmo]

Therefore a testimony of anything (regardless) is not inherently a lie, but merely what one uses to support their belief in something that is highly opinionated.

I would go further and say a testimony within Mormonism is simply an opinion, and I guess opinions aren't lies. The confusion comes when Mormons say they "know" the church is true. To Mormons, saying that they "know" really means they "believe" the church is true. It's the wording that makes it sound like a lie.

The people who say "I know the church is true" are not expressing an opinion. They do not consider it an opinion. They are expressing what they think is a fact. And although they do not think they are lying, obviously, they are.

You have to be an idiot Mormon apologist (hmmmm... "idiot Mormon apologist"... sorry for the redundancy) to think otherwise.

[_Nephi]

Therefore a testimony of anything (regardless) is not inherently a lie, but merely what one uses to support their belief in something that is highly opinionated.

I would go further and say a testimony within Mormonism is simply an opinion, and I guess opinions aren't lies. The confusion comes when Mormons say they "know" the church is true. To Mormons, saying that they "know" really means they "believe" the church is true. It's the wording that makes it sound like a lie.

I think in some situations, opinions become facts to the individual over time. For instance, one's opinion that their spouse loves them turns into fact to the individual as time progresses.

[_Nephi]

Therefore a testimony of anything (regardless) is not inherently a lie, but merely what one uses to support their belief in something that is highly opinionated.

I would go further and say a testimony within Mormonism is simply an opinion, and I guess opinions aren't lies. The confusion comes when Mormons say they "know" the church is true. To Mormons, saying that they "know" really means they "believe" the church is true. It's the wording that makes it sound like a lie.

The people who say "I know the church is true" are not expressing an opinion. They do not consider it an opinion. They are expressing what they think is a fact. And although they do not think they are lying, obviously, they are.

You have to be an idiot Mormon apologist (hmmmm... "idiot Mormon apologist"... sorry for the redundancy) to think otherwise.

Kinda like your opinion that your wife loves you, right?