The Nehor wrote:I think the decision was right but the personal experience was unnecessary and the use of the word 'dunking' was disrespectful. Other than that her reasoning seemed sound.
I hope the parents aren't this divided on other issues or this child could be in for an interesting childhood.
Whats disrespectful is making a child commit to something they do not understand.
And if the child did understand? I knew enough before I was baptized.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
The Nehor wrote:I think the decision was right but the personal experience was unnecessary and the use of the word 'dunking' was disrespectful. Other than that her reasoning seemed sound.
I hope the parents aren't this divided on other issues or this child could be in for an interesting childhood.
Whats disrespectful is making a child commit to something they do not understand.
If they don't understand, there is no commitment.
I didn't understand what I was doing at 8 but I still committed. Force a child to do somethng and after a while they make excuses for why their parents insist they do something.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
The Nehor wrote:I think the decision was right but the personal experience was unnecessary and the use of the word 'dunking' was disrespectful. Other than that her reasoning seemed sound.
I hope the parents aren't this divided on other issues or this child could be in for an interesting childhood.
Whats disrespectful is making a child commit to something they do not understand.
And if the child did understand? I knew enough before I was baptized.
Really? Did you know the temple ceremony?
Did you know that "the darkies" were fence sitters in the "pre existence"?
There are tons of things you didn't know that you now accept because of your upbringing. What age were you baptised?
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
The Nehor wrote:I think the decision was right but the personal experience was unnecessary and the use of the word 'dunking' was disrespectful. Other than that her reasoning seemed sound.
I hope the parents aren't this divided on other issues or this child could be in for an interesting childhood.
Whats disrespectful is making a child commit to something they do not understand.
And if the child did understand? I knew enough before I was baptized.
Really? Did you know the temple ceremony?
Did you know that "the darkies" were fence sitters in the "pre existence"?
There are tons of things you didn't know that you now accept because of your upbringing. What age were you baptised?
I meant I knew enough to know what I was doing at 8. I knew I was committing to become like Christ and that in a way I was becoming Christ by taking his name. I did it knowing that.
Yes, there are tons of things I know now that I didn't know then. It's called growing up and experiencing new things. Try it some time.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
I think in this specific case, the judge might have had her own experience and emotions get in the way of making a good decision. She didn't even make too much sense....the child is too young to make the decision of being baptised, unless both parents agreed, then the child would be old enough at 8? It doesn't make sense, and I think that the judge was taking out her own personal anger out on this case.
That being said, I do agree that 8 is too young to make desicions like this. I don't think a child is morally responsible for desicions of that importance (assuming here that baptism is an actual spiritual experience and not just a swim in the water for a false religion). How morally responsible is someone who is told to do something and expected to as much as LDS youth at that age? Can you imagine a child saying to their parents, "I just don't want to be baptised" or "I don't believe in the LDS church"? That doesn't happen. Children (especially at that age) want to please their parents more than anything in the world and they love and trust their parents no matter what their parents tell them. Have you ever heard those stories about children who are sent into stores to steal for their parents? Are the children sent to jail? Of course not--they are only doing what their parents want them to do.
I remember a personal story (I believe it was from the Further Light and Knowledge board) in which a man shared his concern about his ex-wife baptising his 8 year-old. He had serious objections because his child not only had a testimony of the church--but also believed in Santa Clause.
Livingstone22 wrote:I remember a personal story (I believe it was from the Further Light and Knowledge board) in which a man shared his concern about his ex-wife baptising his 8 year-old. He had serious objections because his child not only had a testimony of the church--but also believed in Santa Clause.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins. How many sins can an 8 year old have? Per LDS teachings kids under this age are incapable of committing sin... so baptism at this age is an initiation rite and nothing more.
Livingstone22 wrote:I remember a personal story (I believe it was from the Further Light and Knowledge board) in which a man shared his concern about his ex-wife baptising his 8 year-old. He had serious objections because his child not only had a testimony of the church--but also believed in Santa Clause.
My younger daughter is 15. Her best girlfriend lives down the street from us. This girl, I'll call her Amy, became very interested in the Church.
Amy attended Church with my daughter on Sundays and Wednesday nights. She even goes to Seminary with her in the mornings.
She took all of the missionary discussions.
Her parents were fine with her going to church and taking the missionary discussions, but Amy's mother had a problem with her getting baptized. Her mother felt like being a member of the Church was a big commitment, and wanted her to wait until she was 18 to make that kind of decision.
Amy was getting pressured by a number of well-meaning girls at Young Women, asking her when her baptism date was going to be, etc.
Amy was rather distraught and spoke with me.
I told her that her mother was absolutely right. Being a member of the LDS Church was a huge commitment, and that she should not feel any pressure, or be in any hurry to join. She could attend Church with us, and participate socially in every way without being a member.
Since she had already taken the missionary discussions, if she wanted to be baptized when she was 18, everything was in place for her to do so.
She was relieved.
I also went to the Young Women's president and told her to please advise the other girls to quit pressuring Amy about baptism. It was important that we honor her parents' request.
We are good friends with Amy's parents, and I was not willing to jeopardize that friendship.