200 year fad

[_Runtu]

Secular Mormonism?

Yeah, kinda. I'm just guessing that people will identify themselves as Mormons even though it has very little effect on their lives. My brother, who hasn't been active in the church at all since he was about 16, still calls himself a Mormon. Heck, I'm still a Mormon. I even got asked to speak in church next week.

[_Mercury]

Secular Mormonism?

Yeah, kinda. I'm just guessing that people will identify themselves as Mormons even though it has very little effect on their lives. My brother, who hasn't been active in the church at all since he was about 16, still calls himself a Mormon. Heck, I'm still a Mormon. I even got asked to speak in church next week.

You ought to Runtu. Just start quoting from the Journal of Discourses. When the bishop stands up to stop you from talking tell him that he is in error for questioning the words of the prophets.

[_Runtu]

You ought to Runtu. Just start quoting from the Journal of Discourses. When the bishop stands up to stop you from talking tell him that he is in error for questioning the words of the prophets.

My wife thinks I should speak, for some reason. The topic is "Ye are the offspring of God." To be honest, this is one of the doctrines of Mormonism I am quite fond of. I think it beats the heck out of the traditional idea that God is perfect and humans are depraved.

[_Maxrep]

The Cuny report, published several years ago, indicated that church membership based off of those who considered themselves Mormon was at a standstill. Just a google search away.

[_Jason Bourne]

Jason, they aren't netting a million members every three years. There are a million adult baptisms or baby blessings, but there aren't a million new, active, productive members joining the church every three years.

Yes they are. The NET number goes up by about a million every 3-3.5 years. Take the past 6 year or so and do the pluses and the minuses of convert baptisms, child of records and net increases which does account for death and departure. And I did not say productive member either. but even if it is 30-40% there is still net growth albeit slow.

Jason, your skewed opinion in this matter is once again wrong, clouded by what you want to see and your wishful thinking.

Mercury, the numbers prove it dude. Check it out. I am not wishful, I don't really care. I am however honest, which you are not.

[_Jason Bourne]

Others have run those numbers, and there are serious problems with them.

Really? Who? What are they? Shades discrepencies? Two years and the errors were about 8000. Whoppe poopee.

30-40% retention of new "converts" is a fantastic pipe dream in the part of the developing world I'm familiar with.

Is is? How much experience do you have with it? Have you seen the stats? Do you do any work in the church in your ward, stake, region or area on this? I do and I know that the numbers are.

In fact, I'd wager that if they get 10% retention they'd be ecstatic.

In the developing world they runs about 20-30% or so and in the developed about 60%.

And most of that 10% are baptisms that are related by blood or marriage to Mormons; people missionaries find tracting or doing questions on the street that have no other connection to Mormonism probably have a 1% retention rate.

Are they? How do you know?

The result of all that: wards with thousands on the books and less than 100 in attendance. Wards, like my in-laws' in Chile where every adult has three callings. Where my sister-in-law, as part of the terms for getting her PEF loan, had to teach seminary and was expected to visit all the inactive kids in her ward weekly. [you]All 100 of them[/you]. Same thing holds true in Argentina, where other relatives of mine regularly tell me about the latest nuts the missionaries baptize and who manage to disappear before their clothes dry. Adding insult to injury, my people on both sides of the Andes have to listen to "Area Authorities" berate them for their low home teaching rates and how few of their young men make it to the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Yes I agree in many countries there are problems with this.

The result? Many of the long-term members in these countries are leaving, tired of trying to make dwarf wards and stakes work.

With net growth like that, Mercury's prediction will come true.

Time will tell I guess but I would bet against him.[/quote]

[_Jason Bourne]

Jason, this is a reality.

Mercury, you are wrong.

Accept it or fall further into the continual self deception you seem to enjoy

.

Mercury, kiss my butt man.

[_Jason Bourne]

Secular Mormonism?

Yeah, kinda. I'm just guessing that people will identify themselves as Mormons even though it has very little effect on their lives. My brother, who hasn't been active in the church at all since he was about 16, still calls himself a Mormon. Heck, I'm still a Mormon. I even got asked to speak in church next week.

My dad has not attended for 50 years, smokes, drinks, cheated on my mom and still identifies himself as LDS. He even started paying tithing to his local ward recently though he does not attend. GO figure.

[_Mercury]

Secular Mormonism?

Yeah, kinda. I'm just guessing that people will identify themselves as Mormons even though it has very little effect on their lives. My brother, who hasn't been active in the church at all since he was about 16, still calls himself a Mormon. Heck, I'm still a Mormon. I even got asked to speak in church next week.

My dad has not attended for 50 years, smokes, drinks, cheated on my mom and still identifies himself as LDS. He even started paying tithing to his local ward recently though he does not attend. GO figure.

Yep. The con is so good that even if you don't participate you are still made to feel guilty. The LDS guilt trip is their most powerful control mechanism.

[_Jason Bourne]

Secular Mormonism?

Yeah, kinda. I'm just guessing that people will identify themselves as Mormons even though it has very little effect on their lives. My brother, who hasn't been active in the church at all since he was about 16, still calls himself a Mormon. Heck, I'm still a Mormon. I even got asked to speak in church next week.

My dad has not attended for 50 years, smokes, drinks, cheated on my mom and still identifies himself as LDS. He even started paying tithing to his local ward recently though he does not attend. GO figure.

Yep. The con is so good that even if you don't participate you are still made to feel guilty. The LDS guilt trip is their most powerful control mechanism.

Thing is Merc my dad says he really does not believe in God. But if he did it would be the Mormon version. Probably because that is what he grew up with, the culture he lived most of his life in and the religion most of his siblings still participate in. Maybe it is just to bug his Presbyterian anti LDS wife and make things interesting that he holds to Mormon culture. We talk about this a lot, as well as all the problems in LDS history and so forth. He is a history major and though he worked in the business world he read voraciously all the time.

So I don't get it. But hey, you think that I am deluded and holding on to wishful thinking. But for me at least, it is rather complex and yes, it is difficult to let go of something that I have lived my entire life for. Even if I have major doubts and certainly don't believe it the way I used to I still feel need to be part of it.