asbestosman wrote:I'm sure Charity wouldn't, but what about William Schriver, Dr. Peterson, Dr. Hamblin, and the like?
You'd have to ask them. beastie has discussed these things before, and she says they just ignored it. I wasn't there, so I wouldn't know.
I cannot imagine a circumstance in which it is right to publicly smear someone's reputation even if that person refused to obey a commandment from God. At most I think it only proper to state which commandment a person refused to obey, but even that should generally be nobody's business except perhaps those involved in the church court.
beastie wrote:If there is no evidence that Joseph Smith had sex with his wives, why do you think the LDS church worked so hard to provide that very evidence to the RLDS church? Were they just making it up? Were the leaders encouraging the wives of Joseph Smith to lie?
I think it possible (and in my ignorant opinion probable) that Joseph Smith enjoyed marital relations with at least some of his other wives. While I wouldn't think they'd encourage lying, perhaps they simply assumed Joseph Smith did bed his other wives (as tend to) while he actually did not.
As to why the women would lie--perhaps faulty memory over the years? In other words a mistake, not a lie.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
beastie wrote:If there is no evidence that Joseph Smith had sex with his wives, why do you think the LDS church worked so hard to provide that very evidence to the RLDS church? Were they just making it up? Were the leaders encouraging the wives of Joseph Smith to lie?
I think it possible (and in my ignorant opinion probable) that Joseph Smith enjoyed marital relations with at least some of his other wives. While I wouldn't think they'd encourage lying, perhaps they simply assumed Joseph Smith did bed his other wives (as tend to) while he actually did not.
We're talking about firsthand testimony of women saying they themselves had "carnal relations" (in the words of one wife) with Joseph Smith. We aren't talking about assumptions about other wives.
As to why the women would lie--perhaps faulty memory over the years?
I think most of us remember if we've had sex with someone.
Runtu wrote:So, these women lied? All of them? I'm supposed to accept the word of the 11 witnesses that they saw the gold plates, but I'm supposed to believe that all these women made up stories about Joseph Smith?
Well, on the surface I'd have to go with you, but I'm sure Pahoran et. al. have good reasons for believing there's a lack of evidence on this. Pahoran may not be well liked, but he's pretty smart.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Runtu wrote:So, these women lied? All of them? I'm supposed to accept the word of the 11 witnesses that they saw the gold plates, but I'm supposed to believe that all these women made up stories about Joseph Smith?
Well, on the surface I'd have to go with you, but I'm sure Pahoran et. al. have good reasons for believing there's a lack of evidence on this. Pahoran may not be well liked, but he's pretty smart.
Pahoran doesn't believe they had sex? The only person I know over there who absolutely insists there was no sex is Jan.
Well, on the surface I'd have to go with you, but I'm sure Pahoran et. al. have good reasons for believing there's a lack of evidence on this. Pahoran may not be well liked, but he's pretty smart.
I don't recall Pahoran denying that Joseph Smith had sexual relations with his wives.
But, speaking of the reaction of apologists to the libel and slander, If I recall correctly, Pahoran was the sole person to speculate that perhaps Martha Brotherton really was a prostitute.
That's not pretty smart at all. Pahoran is intelligent, no doubt, but he allows his bias to run amuck.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
Are you sure Jan denies that Joseph Smith had sex with any of his wives? My impression was that the dynastic union argument was limited to certain marriages, like Helen Mar. (and I actually agree he likely didn't have sex with her)
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
beastie wrote:Are you sure Jan denies that Joseph Smith had sex with any of his wives? My impression was that the dynastic union argument was limited to certain marriages, like Helen Mar. (and I actually agree he likely didn't have sex with her)
And that may be what I'm remembering about Pahoran too.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Are you sure Jan denies that Joseph Smith had sex with any of his wives? My impression was that the dynastic union argument was limited to certain marriages, like Helen Mar. (and I actually agree he likely didn't have sex with her)
I may be wrong. Just the last time I heard anything about it from her, she did one of those "it's already answered and Joseph didn't have sex with them" things.