anti-polygamy article currently front page on cnn.com

[_asbestosman]

Widespread child abuse? I have a hard time imagining that the church ever encouraged that. I even have a hard time imagining that it would have been condoned. I can think of plenty of scriptures that speak against it.

I don't think the FLDS condone incest, either, do they? I never suggested that the LDS church condoned or encouraged child abuse, and frankly, I find it offensive that you imply that I did.

That was not my intention and as such I am sorry.

Anyhow, I think it's time I bow out of all these polygamy threads.

[_Runtu]

Widespread child abuse? I have a hard time imagining that the church ever encouraged that. I even have a hard time imagining that it would have been condoned. I can think of plenty of scriptures that speak against it.

I don't think the FLDS condone incest, either, do they? I never suggested that the LDS church condoned or encouraged child abuse, and frankly, I find it offensive that you imply that I did.

That was not my intention and as such I am sorry.

Anyhow, I think it's time I bow out of all these polygamy threads.

I'm sorry for being a little touchy. It's been a long week already, and it's only Tuesday. Please don't bow out on my account.

[_Yoda]

They're pretty much practicing polygamy the same way it was done by the LDS in the past. To suggest that problems and abuses began after they broke off from the true church is to be ignorant of Mormon polygamy's sad history.

Widespread child abuse? I have a hard time imagining that the church ever encouraged that. I even have a hard time imagining that it would have been condoned. I can think of plenty of scriptures that speak against it.

I agree that the molestation of the daughter by the father was outside the realm of anything that the Church (the LDS Church) would condone.

However, what do you consider child abuse? Do you consider an arranged marriage between a 14-16 year old girl to a 35-60 year old man child abuse?

Do you consider the treatment of women that has been discussed in other threads (a.k.a. Heber C. Kimball's comments about the missionaries taking the pretty girls and leaving the ugly ones for us) abusive?

[_Yoda]

What infuriates me is that members of that "true church", who are in government positions, and could actually do something about the situation, have turned a blind eye to FLDS communities for years.

What could they do and why doesn't someone else do something if LDS governmental officials won't? It seems to me that many of us voters would also like something to be done in cases of widespread child abuse.

If the LDS officials out-vote the others on committees, then hands are tied.

Voters do need to be more informed on what's happening, which is why stories like these, in my opinion, is a good thing. It gets the word out that there are some horrific things happening.

What needs to be done? Those SOB men need to be thrown in jail, and there need to be co-op work programs formed so that the mothers and children can receive the education and jobs they need to start new lives.

The current situation is a mess, and will take years to fix.

[_skippy the dead]

They're pretty much practicing polygamy the same way it was done by the LDS in the past. To suggest that problems and abuses began after they broke off from the true church is to be ignorant of Mormon polygamy's sad history.

Widespread child abuse? I have a hard time imagining that the church ever encouraged that. I even have a hard time imagining that it would have been condoned. I can think of plenty of scriptures that speak against it.

I agree that the molestation of the daughter by the father was outside the realm of anything that the Church (the LDS Church) would condone.

However, what do you consider child abuse? Do you consider an arranged marriage between a 14-16 year old girl to a 35-60 year old man child abuse?

Do you consider the treatment of women that has been discussed in other threads (a.k.a. Heber C. Kimball's comments about the missionaries taking the pretty girls and leaving the ugly ones for us) abusive?

And let's not forget the young men forced out of the community, so as not to compete for the young girls.

[_Runtu]

And let's not forget the young men forced out of the community, so as not to compete for the young girls.

In the old days, they just castrated the ones they didn't want to compete with.

[_Yoda]

And let's not forget the young men forced out of the community, so as not to compete for the young girls.

Yes, and that IS child abuse any way you cut it.

[_Yoda]

And let's not forget the young men forced out of the community, so as not to compete for the young girls.

In the old days, they just castrated the ones they didn't want to compete with.

Did anyone in the Church ever publicly apologize for THAT one?

I think not!

[_The Nehor]

Widespread child abuse? I have a hard time imagining that the church ever encouraged that. I even have a hard time imagining that it would have been condoned. I can think of plenty of scriptures that speak against it.

I don't think the FLDS condone incest, either, do they? I never suggested that the LDS church condoned or encouraged child abuse, and frankly, I find it offensive that you imply that I did. But the practice was fraught with widespread abuse, which is what you would expect when women are treated as possessions instead of people. Like it or not, that is how women were treated in 19th-century Mormonism: as chattel and property, not as human beings.

That is not true. Reading the private journals of men and women of the period there was humanity there and wives (including plural wives) influenced husbands and husbands influenced women. Most loved each other.

[_asbestosman]

However, what do you consider child abuse?

Arousing or purposely arousing self through a young child.

I think there are some gray areas, but that more or less is the gist of what I think.

Do you consider an arranged marriage between a 14-16 year old girl to a 35-60 year old man child abuse?

A forced marriage is one I find abusive regardless of the age. In such a case I think calling it child abuse is only incidental in that children were involved instead of say, 20-year olds. I do, however, find it worse with children as have a harder time asserting themselves for what they want. The age difference is irrelavent to me. Only the forcing is the problem. Arranged marriages with the reasonable ability to opt out are perfectly fine except in that we have determined that 14-16 is too young and in today's complex society I agree, but then I think 18-20 is still too young with 21 being borderline acceptable yet very young. Anyhow, God nor the law care much what I think.

Do you consider the treatment of women that has been discussed in other threads (a.k.a. Heber C. Kimball's comments about the missionaries taking the pretty girls and leaving the ugly ones for us) abusive?

Not abusive, but certainly not very admirable. I don't think attitudes constitute abuse. If I only married my wife for her body, it would be sad, but I don't think it'd make me abusive and certainly not child-abuse as were both in twenties.