The Death, or Survival, of Christianity

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_Roger Morrison
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The Death, or Survival, of Christianity

Post by _Roger Morrison »

I think pasted below, from Spong, is one,if not the best, of his essays, to date:

If Christianity Cannot Change, It Will Die.

Christianity as a religion of certainty and control is dying. The signs of that death are present in the emptiness of the churches of Europe, in the decline of candidates for the priesthood in the Roman Catholic Church, in the increasing obsession about issues of sexuality that bedevil church leaders, and in the rising secularization of our society. It is also seen, however, in the hysterical fundamentalism that marks conservative Evangelicals and Catholics alike in our world today. Fundamentalism is not a virtue; it is a sign of being out of touch with reality. Christianity is not dying because people are abandoning "revealed truth," as conservatives like to argue, but because the three major concepts of what was once called "revealed" truth are no longer credible today. These three concepts are: Christianity's definition of God, Christianity's definition of human life and Christianity's understanding of life after death. In this week's column I want to examine each of these concepts.

The traditional understanding of God has defined the deity as "a Being" supernatural in power, dwelling somewhere outside this world, understood after the analogy of a human parent and capable of acting in protective and miraculous ways. I call this "the theistic definition of God" and so deeply has it dominated Christian thought that one who cannot still believe in this theistic deity today is assumed to be "an atheist," and thus is said to believe in no God at all. That accusation makes sense only if theism is the only way in which God can be conceptualized. I do not believe that this is the case.

Theism is dying because the expansion of human understanding about the size of the universe, begun with Copernicus and aided by Einstein and the Hubble telescope, has destroyed what we once assumed to be the theistic God's dwelling place above the sky. That has the effect of dislocating our theistic mentality in a total way. When Isaac Newton, some 50 years after Galileo, revealed to us the precise ways in which the laws of the universe operate, the arena in which our claims about miracles, magic and God's ability to act on our behalf shrank perceptibly. The power of God to determine the weather patterns, so prominent in the biblical stories of Noah, Moses and Elijah, was destroyed by our knowledge about weather fronts, low pressure systems, El Nino winds and the ways in which tectonic plates collide far beneath the earth's surface. The power of God to control behavior by dispensing sickness and health was destroyed by the rise of medical science and its understanding of both the causes and cures of sickness, none of which had anything to do with punishment for not offering proper sacrifices or not obeying the divinely inspired laws. As each new insight removed one more arena in which the theistic God was thought to operate, this God increasingly was reduced to impotence and had no more divine work to do. Thus God became quickly and frighteningly an almost irrelevant and fading presence in modern life. If there is no way to define our experience of God except in theistic language, then there is little hope for this God's continued survival.

Next Christianity defined human life as that which had been created perfect in God's image at the dawn of history, but falling into sin by an act of willful disobedience. This idea meant that human beings were now theologically defined as lost and incapable of achieving salvation unless rescued by an external divine power. Salvation meant being restored to our pre-fallen status and the "savior" had to be seen as the emissary or even as the incarnation of the theistic deity. It was against this background that the story of Jesus has traditionally been told. In that narrative, the cross became the place where our salvation was procured by the death of Jesus. It was strange theology transforming God into a merciless judge, Jesus into the perpetual victim and you and me into being guilt ridden creatures. It was, however, so popular that the words "Jesus died for my sins" became the Protestant mantra and this understanding of the cross as the place of divine sacrifice came to be reenacted weekly in the Mass as the heart of Catholic worship.

It was the work of Charles Darwin, now deeply affirmed by the discovery of DNA that links all life into one unfolding whole, that rendered this Christian understanding of the origins of human life to be obsolete at best, dead wrong at worst. Human beings have never possessed a perfection from which they could fall. Original sin is thus a theological hoax. Human beings have evolved over billions of years from single cells into our present self-conscious complexity. We must be understood, therefore, as emerging creatures reaching out for a humanity that we do not yet possess, not fallen creatures who yearn to be rescued. So the heart of the way the Jesus story has traditionally been told has also become irrelevant, inadequate and quite simply not so.

Christianity's understanding of the afterlife has also depended traditionally on the idea that God was a theistic, record-keeping deity, living above the clouds, before whom we would have to appear for judgment at the end of our days. That understanding also depended on goodness and evil being objective categories easy to define. That traditional idea of judgment portrayed us as chronically immature people, who stood quietly before an authoritative parent figure sitting on a throne to receive either a reward for our goodness or punishment for our sinfulness. In either stance we were never to be allowed to grow beyond that stage of life in which the child tries to win the parent's approval.

Eighteenth century studies in cultural relativity made both truth and goodness hard to define. Nineteenth century studies in sociology revealed that human behavior is conditioned by our circumstances and that the relationship between hunger, education and poverty and the definition of evil are deeply present in the kind of evolutionary, competitive behavior that places the highest value on survival even as it is served by lying, stealing and killing. Charles Dickens and Victor Hugo painted that portrait powerfully in their novels. Twentieth century studies then established the psychological interdependence of all life and showed us how it is that the "sins of the fathers and the mothers are visited upon the children to the third and fourth generations." This insight served to make assigning individual credit and blame to be all but impossible. So how, a modern person might ask, can we stand before the judgment of this theistic God?

When these core aspects of our traditional faith story began to fade, it was not surprising that organized forms of Christianity began to fade with them. As religious systems die two things always happen. First, those who cannot embrace life without their religious certainties become frightened and begin to assert yesterday's religious truths with great vigor and renewed passion. They become the fundamentalists, the evangelicals and the conservative Catholics. They shout their convictions loudly. They defend "revealed" truth vigorously, asserting such strange ideas as papal infallibility and biblical inerrancy. They condemn any one who disagrees with their convictions and they vow once again to conquer the world for Christ. That kind of right wing religion is omni-present in this generation. The second response is a significant rise in the number of dropouts from organized religion altogether, a secularization of the whole society and an increase in what might be called convinced humanism. This expression is also a reality in the post Christian world of today. The sterile battles that go on between the two manifestations of a dying Christianity are both public and boring, since neither approach really engages the real issues nor offers a viable solution.

There is, however, another possible response that needs to be discovered and it is the one to which I am committed. That response is to initiate a radical reformation within Christianity itself. It begins with the admission that traditional Christianity cannot be believed in its current pre-modern forms. It cannot be artificially respirated. It is to face the new possibility that these traditional understandings may never have been correct in the first place. It drives us to what I regard as a freeing distinction between the God experience, that I believe is real, and the human explanations of the God experience that are always time bound, time warped and destined to die. In a similar manner it suggests that there is a difference between the Christ experience and the human explanations of the Christ experience. The Bible is a first century human explanation of a powerful God experience associated with Jesus of Nazareth. The creeds are fourth century attempts in a Greek thinking, Mediterranean world to explain the Christian faith. No explanation is eternal but I believe the God experience is. The secret to the power present in the person of Jesus was that people believed they had experienced God in him. The task for the Christian future is to be open to the reality of the God experience, while rejecting as no longer adequate the explanations of that experience even when they are embodied in the most sacred relics of our faith story. My conclusion is that God will always be a mystery into which we can walk, but the truth of God will always be beyond the ability of human minds to understand, to explain or to exhaust. Christ becomes, therefore, not an idol, but a doorway through which our journey into God can travel. When we understand this, then a faith that can be explored, not a faith that must be believed becomes visible. That, I believe, is the hope for Christianity is in the 21st century. That is, therefore, the task to which my life is committed.


Comments? Discussion? Warm regards, Roger
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

Apostate Christianity has always been 'mostly dead' anyway. True Christianity (LDS) will have it's ups and downs but will survive as it has never been one of control or beholden to dogma that conflicts with science.
_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

bcspace wrote:Apostate Christianity has always been 'mostly dead' anyway. True Christianity (LDS) will have it's ups and downs but will survive as it has never been one of control or beholden to dogma that conflicts with science.


I find this glib dismissal of other spiritual traditions and experience to be rather troubling. I remember a while back on MAD an Evangelical describing LDS meetings as spiritually dead. I suppose "mostly dead" is in the eye of the beholder.
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_Roger Morrison
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Post by _Roger Morrison »

bcspace wrote:Apostate Christianity has always been 'mostly dead' anyway. True Christianity (LDS) will have it's ups and downs but will survive as it has never been one of control or beholden to dogma that conflicts with science.


Hi BC, survival might not be a badge of honor. Simply nack to evade and power to dominate a lessor contestant. Like the RC Church, its been here since Peter, and still going strong. It's a real survivor!!

LDSism controls by passive aggression, and edict by "God's" spokespersons. GBH today. Tomorrow,??? To suggest LDSism exerts no 'control' is a lie. Whether deliberate or not, you misrepresent the truth.

Does 'not conflicts wih science'... How many scientists affirm the world/earth is 6,000 years old? Kolob?? Garden of Eden in Missouri? Homosexuality a matter of birth, not choice?

Did you read Spong's whole article? If so, did you note there are no doctrinal differences between LDS & other sects that fit into the unbelievable? They all believe the same ancient myths that expose their ignorance. One exception, LDS has its unique Trinity version/vision and a man-shaped "God"...

But LDSism provides a religious entity that serves those who embrace it. All within the present laws. Warm regards, Roger
_huckelberry
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Post by _huckelberry »

hair of the dog that bit you, or rebound affair replacing the lover who didn't work out with another just the same.

I can't react nicely to Spong because he sounds to my ears juist like Joseph Smith. He makes all sorts of hyperbolic attacks on everybody but himself. He finds a few scattered interesting criticisms and comes up with a few halfthoughtout respenses to these promblems. Instead of actually thinking anythingthrough he dresses the half baked proposals up in the garb of dogmatic athority. Barf.
_huckelberry
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Post by _huckelberry »

I would like to ask Mr Spong why anybody should view this "god experience" as something valuable instead of something to be avoided. Perhaps he has been in church so long he assumes people just love this god experience. Even if they do and I am not so sure they do, should they?

If the god experience has produced such a tiresome narrowness as Mr Spong describes then it would seem natural to assume that we should look for something else. Something outside of church outside of god delusions outside big bursts of meaningless faith experiences. I think eventhought Spong may be narrow in his focus on negative results what his tunnel vision sees is real enough. Is that not reason to be damn careful about chasing after religious stuff?

For Gods sake get out of the mind ghetto.
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

I don't get what Spong wants from Christianity. He wants to throw out everything it is and yet survive in some new form. I am personally inclined to think that if Peter and Paul had no clue what Christ is about then Spong 2000 years later would be even more clueless.

I think Spong is looking to create a new religion and attach the name Christianity to it. I'm not sure why it needs that name.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
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_Roger Morrison
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Post by _Roger Morrison »

Hi Huck, i'm trying to get a handle on your anti-Spong thinking. Do you think he does not go far enough with his castigation of Christianity? If i'm understanding you correctly, you give no credence to the religious-experience, Christian or otherwise... Is that correct?

If so, then we are in some agreement. What i find questionable with Spong: while he charges at the wall with claims that i generally agree with--out dated mythologies and superstition nurtured in ignorance--he fails to scale the wall to accept the reality that there is not the after-life taught/imagined in the curriculum delivered through out the whole Judeo-Christian culture.

However, i do give him credit for taking his observations as far as he has, making them puplic for the benefit of those questioning those ancient premises that have heretofore based the Christian tradition. I think him credible in his 'revelations' by dint of his work/study history. Immersed in the ancient maze of mythology he has rightly concluded 'some' of its false hoods. Yet, from his life time of exposure to that indoctrination, he still maintanes belief in a "God experince" that more fits the past, than the present...as i read him. Now, if GBH would say "Amen, Bro Spong!" :-) That would move truth even further...

Nehor, i think Spong is attached to the Jesus experience. Not to the myths and legends that surround him, but to the reality of the 'man' who taught as he was inspired to do.

Which i think was to dispell the "God" myths of the Old Testament. There is no such personal jealous, angry, vindictive"God" of favour. Jesus introduced a "God" without prejudice or favour, but of order... Unseen except in the creations we see, enjoy or avoid, wherein we live. Learning by experience the working of the universe to our advantage, or disadvantage, as inclined by our dispositions... Dispositions that themselves are products of creation by nature--genetics and nurture--environment.

It is my seriously considered opinion, as we learn more about both nature and nurture, and apply new knowledge/understanding to the human-experience, humanity will materialize the society that Jesus envisioned in his teachings... Not taking bets on when it'll happen... Depends on how fast we get smart...

I think Spong might have a limited understanding of Christ-ianity but it is an improvement over the traditional...IMSCO. Warm regards, Roger
_huckelberry
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Post by _huckelberry »

Hi Roger, I will try to do a better job of explaning. With your straight comments I should make a better effort.

I think Mr Spong in his rhetoric approaches his question with a simple two alternative sides approach. He speaks of a sort of Fundamentalism he thinks unrealistic and then proposes his own view as the alternative. In his passion he does not speak to any alternative. He may well be aware of other lines of thought but they do not fit into his program. I do not agree with either of the pictures so feel like my views are being summarily ignored. That may be fine for somebody else but it does not incline me to listen favorably to Mr Spong.

My views are that fundamental Christian beliefs are both valuable and true. I may well have relatively liberal understandings of those Christian basics but I have enough in common with fundamentalists that I do not automatically go yes yes when they are criticized by poor generalizations. But my view, my concerns, my questions, are summarily relagated to nonexistence in Spongs black and white analysis. I am not likely to be sympathetic.

I find it difficult to find a line of thought in Spongs comments. They read to my mind as flag waving in a political war. Which of course is what they are. It is political struggle for control of his denomination. It is likely to divide it in the near future. My dislike of that possiblity is not that I think different view points cannot have seperate organizations. That is fine with me. His political proceedure is likely to leave my views torn in the middle of the divide. Spong by his totally negative understanding of conservative Christian views is sure to alienate many Christians. My own views are continually besmirched with the association. The result is I see him as fomenting a political war I would be cought in the middle of.

Now I am not in his denomination. I like the mix of liberal and conservative people which can mix where I go to church. We have women and men as elders. We have some women ministers. We focus on the potential of faith encouraging helping people instead of being some special group. But like any Protestant organization there are tensions between liberal and consertive thought which could cause fractures. It can cause mistrust and suspicion. I would like to see more understanding between relatively liberal and conservative thought. (I do not think the expremes, which is about all Spong speaks about, have any possiiblity of understanding each other) To foster understanding it is necessary to recoginize the positive elements in view that you do not entirely agree with.

Naturally I would prefer it if Spong simply joined up with the Unitarian Unerversalists. They have taught his theology for a couple of hundred years now. But no, he wants to drag off a chunk of some other church. I would feel better if he just up and realized his own agnosticism and was clear about it. I find agnosticism understandable. I think it is engaged in deeper more serious thought about how to reconstruct the process of social values in new ways. I would rather dialogue with an atheist or agnostic doing that kind of thought than somebody locked into a church political controll struggle.

Those are general comments. If I try to look at specifics I find myself simply wishing Spong would be clearer in his concepts. How else could one use him to help clarify thought? When he speaks of a god experience I am wondering what in the world that is. What is he referring to? What does he think it is? I find the words repulsively noncommunicative.

Perhaps I could add a more positive note. May I suggest reading some Paul Tillich. That is the source of some background ideas Spong seems to be inspired by. I have found Tillich an interesting read. There is a small book, Dynamics of Faith which is a good condensed expression of his ideas. Try it you might find it worth the read. It is a good dig into the difference between true faith and idolatry. Faith is connection to what is actually our ultimate concern. Idolatry is authorities which are less than that and get in the way. Religious symbols can point to our ultimate concern even if they temselves are nto that concern.
_Roger Morrison
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Post by _Roger Morrison »

Hi Huck, thanks for your good, revealing response. I better understand your thinking re Spong. I'll try to address your concerns with MY understanding of Spong and his purpose... Hope i have some measure of success ;-) I'm in italics

huckelberry wrote:Hi Roger, I will try to do a better job of explaning. With your straight comments I should make a better effort.

I think Mr Spong in his rhetoric approaches his question with a simple two alternative sides approach. He speaks of a sort of Fundamentalism he thinks unrealistic and then proposes his own view as the alternative. In his passion he does not speak to any alternative. He may well be aware of other lines of thought but they do not fit into his program. I do not agree with either of the pictures so feel like my views are being summarily ignored. That may be fine for somebody else but it does not incline me to listen favorably to Mr Spong.

RM: Valid, from your perspective. I think we might be somewhat in that fable of the blind men describing an elephant??? Each from what 'they' feel. I "think" from what you say, that you are feeling Spong as a 'threat' to your comfort zone?? Certainly why not? He is seemingly challenging what you hold dear in Your Church... Or, is he???

My views are that fundamental Christian beliefs are both valuable and true. I may well have relatively liberal understandings of those Christian basics but I have enough in common with fundamentalists that I do not automatically go yes yes when they are criticized by poor generalizations. But my view, my concerns, my questions, are summarily relagated to nonexistence in Spongs black and white analysis. I am not likely to be sympathetic.

RM: I think you share "...relatively liberal understanding..." with Spong. But, I think it important to know Spong's religious background. He 'originated' in the Anglican Church that sees itself as THE reformed RC church. Thanks to KH VIII, as i'm sure you know. NOT liberal in any way! A noted career under that umbrella in the American Episcopalian Church brought him to realize the rigid & frigid edicts and dictates that bound that institution to the past were not conducive to advancing into the warmth of the good-news...

With this understanding came his determination to modify, change and bring the Episcopalian Church into the 20th, and now the 21st, century. As a Bishop (now retired) he had some autonomy and influence to exercise his ambition: He ordained the first Woman Priest and opened the closet for those Gay and Lesbian Priests and Nuns to admit to their sexuality. For this he faced death threats and was dragged through the coals by those not ready to 'go-there'. I don't know where you stand on these issues but i believe you mentioned having Women Ministers where you attend???


I find it difficult to find a line of thought in Spongs comments. They read to my mind as flag waving in a political war. Which of course is what they are. It is political struggle for control of his denomination. It is likely to divide it in the near future. My dislike of that possiblity is not that I think different view points cannot have seperate organizations. That is fine with me. His political proceedure is likely to leave my views torn in the middle of the divide. Spong by his totally negative understanding of conservative Christian views is sure to alienate many Christians. My own views are continually besmirched with the association. The result is I see him as fomenting a political war I would be cought in the middle of.

RM: More feeling-the-elephant... "...A political war...for control..." from your perspective. From mine, his efforts/mission is to "influence" folks of all denominations to experience--as "I" see it--the kind of Christian Community that You so well describe, experience and enjoy. He encourages folks to find such a place, independent of denomination or sect. At the same time he attempts to open minds to the past misunderstandings of the ultimacy of Bible statements, stories and legends. No where does he discredit the Jesus who was crucfied, or the God of love and justice found in the New Testament... However, as a 'reformer' he might well be waving a flag. It goes with the role. It is not a war-cry but a call to liberty... Of course not seen the same by all...

Now I am not in his denomination. I like the mix of liberal and conservative people which can mix where I go to church. We have women and men as elders. We have some women ministers. We focus on the potential of faith encouraging helping people instead of being some special group. But like any Protestant organization there are tensions between liberal and consertive thought which could cause fractures. It can cause mistrust and suspicion. I would like to see more understanding between relatively liberal and conservative thought. (I do not think the expremes, which is about all Spong speaks about, have any possiiblity of understanding each other) To foster understanding it is necessary to recoginize the positive elements in view that you do not entirely agree with.

RM: Me too, to your 1st two sentences. Yes, tensions exist where ever there is freedom of thought. That it is expessed is healthy. There is no music unless there is 'tension' then 'resolution'... Before the 'piece' is perfected to its flawless 'presentation' there is much 'practice' and even 'revision'--then we have something that stires the soul... So it is with the evolution of anything worthwhile. Unfortunately there is impatience and ego involvment in the philosophics that too often do not allow the development we find in the harmonics...Ya know what i'm saying??? Then we do reach the point to "...recognize the positive elements...that you do not entirely agree with." I respectfully suggest, "give yourself that time."

Naturally I would prefer it if Spong simply joined up with the Unitarian Unerversalists. They have taught his theology for a couple of hundred years now. But no, he wants to drag off a chunk of some other church. I would feel better if he just up and realized his own agnosticism and was clear about it. I find agnosticism understandable. I think it is engaged in deeper more serious thought about how to reconstruct the process of social values in new ways. I would rather dialogue with an atheist or agnostic doing that kind of thought than somebody locked into a church political controll struggle.

RM: Again, i think you misunderstand Spong's motives. I've attended UU meeting in both Canada and the USA and found them most informative & enjoyable. I think Spong has spoke to many UU assemblies. As you noted, they share a lot in common. Do you think it not-good to present a liberating message to the unliberated??

Those are general comments. If I try to look at specifics I find myself simply wishing Spong would be clearer in his concepts. How else could one use him to help clarify thought? When he speaks of a god experience I am wondering what in the world that is. What is he referring to? What does he think it is? I find the words repulsively noncommunicative.

RM: I concur... "...his "God experience..." is left to the imagination. I don't know how anyone could describe a "God experience"? I think what comes to play here is his 70+ years of Anglican piety... It's impossible to unlearn everything...try to unlearn riding a bicycle ;-)

Perhaps I could add a more positive note. May I suggest reading some Paul Tillich. That is the source of some background ideas Spong seems to be inspired by. I have found Tillich an interesting read. There is a small book, Dynamics of Faith which is a good condensed expression of his ideas. Try it you might find it worth the read. It is a good dig into the difference between true faith and idolatry. Faith is connection to what is actually our ultimate concern. Idolatry is authorities which are less than that and get in the way. Religious symbols can point to our ultimate concern even if they temselves are nto that concern.

RM: I have, and i will again read some Tillich. Small books interest me :-) I'm sure Spong is inspired by TIllich, and Hans Kuhn. I respectfully suggest you read some Spong books. Library or Abes Books--real bargains on used books--i mean REAL, REAL!!


Nice "talking" with you... Warm regards, Roger
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