Church Issues Statement about MMM

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_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
Posts: 9207
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Post by _Jason Bourne »

rcrocket wrote:Jason: I've noticed over the past few months you've become more embittered and cynical of the bona fides of the Church. I hope I haven't played a part in that.

rcrocket


I do not think my tone had changed much. I gripe about what bugs me and argue with the more radical cynics and criticisms about things that they throw out that I do not agree with. If you could point to some examples that would be helpful.


Some days I am more cynical other days I am not. I am not sure who and what is a "bona fide." I guess you think I am not because I am an anonymous hypocrite. Your posturing sometimes annoys me and what you seem to portray, in a rigid "if you do not like it resign" attitude is something I find highly annoying about you and many in the Church. Recently I was listening to a podcast from Mormon Stories. It was John Dehlins's interview with Bushman. In it he asked Bushman where besides Dialogue or Sunstsone can a members with concerns and question go? Where can they discuss issues that actully do, is spite of what you think, create real problems for the truth claims of the Church, at least for many people. The answer is there is really no where but message boards like these. Most leaders cannot deal with these issues and view such questions as threats or some sin on the person's part. I worry about damaging others testimonies if I discuss it with my LDS friends. There are a couple that I can but even they get nervous about all these things. Apologetics just does not do it for me. It used to but there just were to many ad hominems int he defense and not enough substance.

Personally I do not want to leave the Church that is so much a part of my life. My family is very involved, I am, my social structure. I actually still enjoy worshiping as an LDS person. I tithe, hold a calling and so my best to participate. This is the only place I really have to vent concerns. Where else can I go to openly discuss the real problems?
_Runtu
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Post by _Runtu »

Jason,

I haven't noticed any extra cynicism on your part. But then I'm a cynical person myself, or so I'm told. The bottom line for me is that you have to do what works in your life. For you, that seems to be participating and worshiping in the LDS church, despite its problems. Some days I wish I could do the same. But if it works for you, then that's what you should do, and you should just ignore the people who tell you how to manage your own life.

I'm glad you're here. I appreciate your perspective. You tend to pull some people back from going too far in their criticisms of the church. And that's probably a good thing.
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
Posts: 9207
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Bob

A question. Do you feel that the States of Missouri and Illinois weer incorrect in their apologies to the LDS Church for what happened to the Church in Missouri and Illinois? None of those political leaders were alive form 1833-1846. What is the difference?
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Jason wrote:Personally I do not want to leave the Church that is so much a part of my life. My family is very involved, I am, my social structure. I actually still enjoy worshiping as an LDS person. I tithe, hold a calling and so my best to participate. This is the only place I really have to vent concerns. Where else can I go to openly discuss the real problems?


I'm in the same boat, my friend.

We'll be hypocrites together!

As far as I'm concerned, if it means being with people like you, I'm in good company.

;)
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Jason Bourne wrote:Bob

A question. Do you feel that the States of Missouri and Illinois weer incorrect in their apologies to the LDS Church for what happened to the Church in Missouri and Illinois? None of those political leaders were alive form 1833-1846. What is the difference?


Exactly!

I would also like to point out, Bob, for the record...since you mentioned earlier in the thread that I have "the morals of a cynic and an unbeliever" because of my compassion toward the MMM victims....my heart aches just as strongly for those Church members who were slaughtered at Haun's Mill, and endured all of the horrors and persecution that they endured.
_Runtu
_Emeritus
Posts: 16721
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Post by _Runtu »

liz3564 wrote:Exactly!

I would also like to point out, Bob, for the record...since you mentioned earlier in the thread that I have "the morals of a cynic and an unbeliever" because of my compassion toward the MMM victims....my heart aches just as strongly for those Church members who were slaughtered at Haun's Mill, and endured all of the horrors and persecution that they endured.


Silly liz! Don't you know you're only supposed to feel bad for one side's victims? How would it look if we cynical exmormons felt compassion towards Mormons?
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Runtu wrote:
liz3564 wrote:Exactly!

I would also like to point out, Bob, for the record...since you mentioned earlier in the thread that I have "the morals of a cynic and an unbeliever" because of my compassion toward the MMM victims....my heart aches just as strongly for those Church members who were slaughtered at Haun's Mill, and endured all of the horrors and persecution that they endured.


Silly liz! Don't you know you're only supposed to feel bad for one side's victims? How would it look if we cynical exmormons felt compassion towards Mormons?


Let's see...maybe it would make us all....hmmm...human?

Maybe it would reinforce the idea that, heaven forbid, we may have more in common with each other than not? Despite our differences?

;)
_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
Posts: 9207
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Runtu wrote:Jason,

I haven't noticed any extra cynicism on your part. But then I'm a cynical person myself, or so I'm told. The bottom line for me is that you have to do what works in your life. For you, that seems to be participating and worshiping in the LDS church, despite its problems. Some days I wish I could do the same. But if it works for you, then that's what you should do, and you should just ignore the people who tell you how to manage your own life.

I'm glad you're here. I appreciate your perspective. You tend to pull some people back from going too far in their criticisms of the church. And that's probably a good thing.



Thanks


You are often the most reasonable person here. Your advice is good.
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