Turns out - rcrocket is a bishop -

[_Jason Bourne]

.

Since Mormonism is not christian you forfeit the right not to act like a tool.

Blah, blah blah. Of course like most of what you post you are incorrect.

[_beastie]

The problem in these discussion is always the definition of "nasty things". There are many believers whose identities are so enmeshed within Mormonism that any serious criticism of Mormonism feels "nasty". On another thread, I have discussed whether or not Joseph Smith deliberately endangered people's lives to protect a real estate endeavor. For believers with enmeshed identities, that feels like a personal attack, a horrible thing to say.

Frankly, I think anyone who posts with their real name, regardless of the content of their posting, is taking a significant risk. It is particularly irresponsible of people who have children living with them.

Moreover, there are people who are forced to pretend to be believers due to family issues. I firmly believe it is not outside the realm of possibility for zealous believers to "report" on the activity of such a closet doubter to church authorities. In fact, it happened to my boyfriend.

Now I know that Bob smugly asserts people ought not to live double lives in this way. But perhaps Bob has never faced the real risk of losing one's spouse and children over losing faith in the church.

[_Jason Bourne]

This may be the silliest thing you've said yet.

I doubt it. I have said lots of silly things.

If a guy calls himself a football player, and then picks up a baseball bat, do I have to be a football player to say, "Hey dude, what's with the bat?" Or do I simply have to know the rules and conventions of football? Are retired football players not allowed to call people on poor football performance because they no longer play? There go all the coaches.

Not the same thing. How can you judge someone by a standard refuse to accept?

However much you might wish your statement to be true, unfortunately for you, it's not.

Clearly I disagree.

[_beastie]

I explained it already. It is ultimate hypocrisy to use a standard you do not apply to yourself against another.

It's not hypocrisy to point out the failure of people to adhere to their own standards, even if you do not agree with those standards.

Believers invite this comparison, when they claim that their belief renders them morally or ethically superior to nonbelievers, or when they claim that one proof of the validity of their belief is their "changed hearts".

[_Jason Bourne]

I explained it already. It is ultimate hypocrisy to use a standard you do not apply to yourself against another.

It's not hypocrisy to point out the failure of people to adhere to their own standards, even if you do not agree with those standards.

Believers invite this comparison, when they claim that their belief renders them morally or ethically superior to nonbelievers, or when they claim that one proof of the validity of their belief is their "changed hearts".

Yes it is. If you do not believe it and use it to judge me what do I care what you say. It is hypocrisy to judge someone by a standard you do no believe in.

[Analytics]

How can you judge someone by a standard refuse to accept?

You don't. Rather you judge them by the meta-standard you both accept: an honest endeavor for one to live by his or her own stated standards.

[_Jason Bourne]

I explained it already. It is ultimate hypocrisy to use a standard you do not apply to yourself against another.

It's not hypocrisy to point out the failure of people to adhere to their own standards, even if you do not agree with those standards.

Believers invite this comparison, when they claim that their belief renders them morally or ethically superior to nonbelievers, or when they claim that one proof of the validity of their belief is their "changed hearts".

Yes it is. If you do not believe it and use it to judge me what do I care what you say. It is hypocrisy to judge someone by a standard you do no believe in.

Ok thinking about this maybe it in not hypocrisy. But it is certainly disingenuous.

[_The Nehor]

I respect you all, even if you are vile sinners.

I thought our Theology taught that all of us are vile sinners.

[_Who Knows]

How can you judge someone by a standard refuse to accept?

You don't. Rather you judge them by the meta-standard you both accept: an honest endeavor for one to live by his or her own stated standards.

This reminds me of when I was on a business trip, and went out to lunch with some non-mormon co-workers. I ordered a diet coke and they said 'you're Mormon - you're not supposed to drink coke'.

[_The Nehor]

How can you judge someone by a standard refuse to accept?

You don't. Rather you judge them by the meta-standard you both accept: an honest endeavor for one to live by his or her own stated standards.

That sucks. My standard is perfection. Let the mud-slinging at me commence.