Seminary: bleary eyed brainwashing

[_Polygamy Porter]

I must confess this is one I have mixed emotions on. I got released time growing up in Utah. Not being a morning person I wonder how I would have faired with early AM seminary. In many ways I think it is rather brutal on a kids schedule to do this. I did send my oldest three. One went willingly and enjoyed. The second went but protested for the last two and it was a bit of a battle. The third, well he fought tooth and nail and dropped it about 2.5 years in. It was creating too much of a problem to continue to force the issue.

Interestingly the oldes is active and temple married, the other two are choosing not to pursue and active LDS life right now. One says she still believes it, the other, my Marine son is not so sure.

So I still have a 12 year old daughter and part of me does not want to make her go unless she wants to. My wife insists that in two years she go.

Interesting.

Why?

Just is, that's all.

[_beastie]

1. Yes, though she admitted we knew little about the whys. She was unsure if these were ever consummated.

So what was the age of the students being told this and what was their reaction? What was your reaction? Did you want to discuss this further?

2. No, but then I'm not sure she was lied to. I suspect she gave consent and then withdrew it.

She only gave her consent and withdrew it a couple of times. I'm not sure how you can believe she gave her permission all the times he married, particularly given the fact that, at times, she even had friends help spy on him - some of those friends, of course, had already married him.

3. Yes, this we were told. If I remember right she taught that it was revealed after John C. Bennett practiced unauthorized 'spiritual wifery'.

Again, what was your reaction? Did the students, or you, seem troubled by Joseph Smith' willingness to deceive the members themselves?

4. This we went over. I remember distinctly the story of Emma being angry and Hyrum taking a copy of the revelation to her to try to talk her around. We spent a day on the reaction of women to polygamy and about half of it focussed on Emma.

5. Not sure what details you're referring to.

4 and 5 were alternate questions, if 1-3 were negative. Every member knows about Emma being angry, I suspect, and many seem to have vague ideas of Joseph Smith having other wives but not realizing what that entailed - ie, the deception and marrying other men's wives, and marrying young girls that had been assigned to his custody. Those sort of details.

[_The Nehor]

1. Yes, though she admitted we knew little about the whys. She was unsure if these were ever consummated.

So what was the age of the students being told this and what was their reaction? What was your reaction? Did you want to discuss this further?

2. No, but then I'm not sure she was lied to. I suspect she gave consent and then withdrew it.

She only gave her consent and withdrew it a couple of times. I'm not sure how you can believe she gave her permission all the times he married, particularly given the fact that, at times, she even had friends help spy on him - some of those friends, of course, had already married him.

3. Yes, this we were told. If I remember right she taught that it was revealed after John C. Bennett practiced unauthorized 'spiritual wifery'.

Again, what was your reaction? Did the students, or you, seem troubled by Joseph Smith' willingness to deceive the members themselves?

4. This we went over. I remember distinctly the story of Emma being angry and Hyrum taking a copy of the revelation to her to try to talk her around. We spent a day on the reaction of women to polygamy and about half of it focussed on Emma.

5. Not sure what details you're referring to.

4 and 5 were alternate questions, if 1-3 were negative. Every member knows about Emma being angry, I suspect, and many seem to have vague ideas of Joseph Smith having other wives but not realizing what that entailed - ie, the deception and marrying other men's wives, and marrying young girls that had been assigned to his custody. Those sort of details.

I wasn't particularly troubled by any of these answers. There were concerned people in the classroom but the teacher handled it well and they appeared to be resolved in the eyes of those students. There were lots of questions and a lively discussion. I don't remember many of the details. It was over 10 years ago now.

[_beastie]

I wasn't particularly troubled by any of these answers. There were concerned people in the classroom but the teacher handled it well and they appeared to be resolved in the eyes of those students. There were lots of questions and a lively discussion. I don't remember many of the details. It was over 10 years ago now.

Why didn't it bother you, as a teenager, to learn that the prophet you had been taught to reverence was doing things like marrying other men's wives, and lying to church members about what was going on?

Usually teenagers are quite idealistic and latch immediately on to exposing hypocrisy in their elders. I'm just wondering why none of this bothered you.

[_Mercury]

I wasn't particularly troubled by any of these answers. There were concerned people in the classroom but the teacher handled it well and they appeared to be resolved in the eyes of those students. There were lots of questions and a lively discussion. I don't remember many of the details. It was over 10 years ago now.

Why didn't it bother you, as a teenager, to learn that the prophet you had been taught to reverence was doing things like marrying other men's wives, and lying to church members about what was going on?

Usually teenagers are quite idealistic and latch immediately on to exposing hypocrisy in their elders. I'm just wondering why none of this bothered you.

My guess is he wasn't troubled because it never happened or is being grossly misrepresented.

[_The Nehor]

I wasn't particularly troubled by any of these answers. There were concerned people in the classroom but the teacher handled it well and they appeared to be resolved in the eyes of those students. There were lots of questions and a lively discussion. I don't remember many of the details. It was over 10 years ago now.

Why didn't it bother you, as a teenager, to learn that the prophet you had been taught to reverence was doing things like marrying other men's wives, and lying to church members about what was going on?

Usually teenagers are quite idealistic and latch immediately on to exposing hypocrisy in their elders. I'm just wondering why none of this bothered you.

I went through school with a healthy diet of polygamy jokes. I got jaded. At the age of 8 I asked my dad about it and we talked for a while. He then found the journal of my great-great grandmother that she wrote for her descendants whose husband married another woman. I read her testimony of it and went through her trials of how it worked and her testimony. It was hard but she says she grew from it. It also described in some detail her reaction to her husband being told he should take another wife. Her faith amazed me as she gave him the strength to follow through.

As for lying to Church Members God told him to. That was good enough for me at the time. I struggled more with it later until God gave me an answer that satisfied me.

To be blunt I never found hypocrisy in my elders growing up or in my teenage years. I had parents who were genuine Mormons. They had some weaknesses but I didn't find them until I was in my 20's (not for lack of trying). Despite hating much of what my parents required I couldn't fault them on much at all. I've seen them fight angrily once in my entire life (I was 3). After that fight my father took me aside and told me that Heavenly Father was not happy with what he did and that he would never do it again. So far as I know he hasn't. I had the perfect Mormon family. I don't mean that sarcastically. While I did have a few morons teach me in my Youth most of them knew what they were doing and most of my Leaders and Bishops were people I would follow into hell. Those I've kept in contact with are still in that category.

I learned young that God can ask very difficult and even unreasonable things of us. I've had a few myself. An answer to a prayer pleading for an explanation: "You are not required to understand, you are required to obey."

[_Mercury]

[
As for lying to Church Members God told him to.

I wish I could use that excuse. But then again, im not a prophet of god.

Drats.

[_Polygamy Porter]

I went through school with a healthy diet of polygamy jokes.

I got jaded.

At the age of 8 I asked my dad about it and we talked for a while. He then found the journal of my great-great grandmother that she wrote for her descendants whose husband married another woman. I read her testimony of it and went through her trials of how it worked and her testimony. It was hard but she says she grew from it. It also described in some detail her reaction to her husband being told he should take another wife. Her faith amazed me as she gave him the strength to follow through.

***BS METER PEGS** You are so full of it that your posts are brown.
You want us to believe that you not only heard polygamy jokes in Kindergarten, and First and Second grades, AND that you understood them?

Curelom dung.

But wait! There is more! And that you went to your daddy and asked "Daddy who is my momma?" and "Do you practice polygamy?"

Holy batsh!t Robin.

I learned young that God can ask very difficult and even unreasonable things of us. I've had a few myself. An answer to a prayer pleading for an explanation: "You are not required to understand, you are required to obey."

I guess Elo-what-ever-his-name-is has not gotten to the part about celestial marriage?

[_Mercury]

Nehor, you are a caricature of naïveté

[_The Nehor]

I went through school with a healthy diet of polygamy jokes.

I got jaded.

At the age of 8 I asked my dad about it and we talked for a while. He then found the journal of my great-great grandmother that she wrote for her descendants whose husband married another woman. I read her testimony of it and went through her trials of how it worked and her testimony. It was hard but she says she grew from it. It also described in some detail her reaction to her husband being told he should take another wife. Her faith amazed me as she gave him the strength to follow through.

***BS METER PEGS** You are so full of it that your posts are brown.
You want us to believe that you not only heard polygamy jokes in Kindergarten, and First and Second grades, AND that you understood them?

Curelom dung.

But wait! There is more! And that you went to your daddy and asked "Daddy who is my momma?" and "Do you practice polygamy?"

Holy batsh!t Robin.

I learned young that God can ask very difficult and even unreasonable things of us. I've had a few myself. An answer to a prayer pleading for an explanation: "You are not required to understand, you are required to obey."

I guess Elo-what-ever-his-name-is has not gotten to the part about celestial marriage?

No, you need to read what I said. What happened was in Second Grade a boy asked me what religion I was in. I said I was Mormon. He looked at me strangely and asked (without any malice) if my dad had lots of marriages (in about those words). I asked my dad why he would say that. He explained some of it.

My marital status is a sensitive subject but thanks for your crass reminder. I'll write it off as part of your being drunk.