When do beliefs become ridiculous?

[_beastie]

What's truly scary is the possibility that I might be a lunatic and everyone around me keeps telling me that, but I somehow manage to process their words to mean something completely different. There is really no way of finding out.

This is actually what worries the most about the whole thing.

If I recall correctly, Darwin was excellent at disciplining his thinking, and would always go out of his way to look for evidence that contradicted whatever belief he currently embraced. I've tried to do that myself whenever possible.

[_karl61]

I sometimes pick up random rocks and look at them. I have even put a few in a hat just to get a visual representation of how the Book of Mormon was translated. I've even put my face into the hat. Try as I might, I can't make myself believe this happens or happened. I have absolutely no evidence that the observable, verifiable world works in this fashion. Yet, a key point in my religion requires I believe a youngman literally did this. And to make it even harder to believe, its not something that was done after that, by anyone else, ever. A truly fantastic claim. My brain realizes the odds of this actually happening, but the heart gets tied up in family expectations, tradition, culture, and fear of the unknown. Given enough time, I think the brain will actually win out. But it isn't without some saddness at what the heart lost.

any modern prophet would first put an IPOD in his hat and then his face - I don't know how large the hard drives are now but you could be in there for hours; Joseph could also get instant messaging from Moroni in his cell phone. wav, mp3 files it's endless.............................................................................

[_Polygamy Porter]

When do beliefs become ridiculous? ???


At the point that a grown thinking adult believes the story that a skinny 21 year old man with a gimp leg could carry 80-150 lbs of gold under his arm while running full speed, jumping logs and straight arming would be thieves.

Or when a grown thinking adult believes the story that a floating glowing spirit of a native american did not wake the brothers of this Joseph Smith, who slept in the same bed

Or when a grown thinking adult believes the story that there is a secret cave in the Hill Cumorah that is full, to the ceiling, of golden plates.

Or, that a stone box that remained intact for 1400 years, sealing out 1400 rainy seasons, 1400 winters, 1400 scorching hot summers, 1400 years of elements, earth movements and critters and yet we have no sigh of this engineering marvel just 200 years later!

Hell, the stone box basically disappeared a few days after old Joe dug up the plates!

[_Yoda]

Or when a grown thinking adult believes the story that a floating glowing spirit of a native american did not wake the brothers of this Joseph Smith, who slept in the same bed

His brothers slept in the same bed with him? This is the first I've heard of this.

Do you have a reference for me?

Thanks!

:)

[_AmazingDisgrace]

Does anyone really believe this crap anymore?

So then I was thinking - what makes a belief ridiculous? What causes people to look at something, and think to themselves 'this is bullcrap'? How can people who have ridiculous beliefs, claim others are ridiculous, but not theirs? What does it take to get someone to see the ridiculousness for what it is?

In many cases, they're just unaware of disconfirming evidence. I was homeschooled during my high school years, and our science books were full of young-earth creationism. I believed all the superficial arguments against their strawman version of evolution, because it was all I knew. Sometimes I wonder if I had gone to a secular university, if I might have continued to deny evolution, simply because I could pretend my godless professors were blindly following scientific dogma. As it was, I went to BYU, and was blindsided by the overwhelming evidence against a young earth and global flood in my geology class, and the evidence for evolution in my biology class, both of which were taught by bishops.

It had to be the combination of those two circumstances that allowed me to change my mind: mountains of evidence, and the idea that "you can accept this science and still be a Mormon." If I had been a member of a more adamantly literalist church, it probably wouldn't have happened. It helps that at BYU, it's easier to perceive the church as being less literal than it really is on Sundays (or in the Religion Department).

[_Doctor Steuss]

A belief becomes ridiculous when you yourself don't believe it.

I tend to think that 1+1=2 is a ridiculous belief (and yes, I’m well aware of the problems with Euclid’s equation).

[_Who Knows]

A belief becomes ridiculous when you yourself don't believe it.

Although some have said the same thing here in this thread, I don't agree. Someone can believe that the yankees will win the world series - and even though i disagree, i don't find the idea ridiculous.

There's more to it than simply disagreeing. Does it all come down to science?

[_Doctor Steuss]

A belief becomes ridiculous when you yourself don't believe it.

Although some have said the same thing here in this thread, I don't agree. Someone can believe that the yankees will win the world series - and even though I disagree, I don't find the idea ridiculous.

There's more to it than simply disagreeing. Does it all come down to science?

Good point.

Perhaps it more-so has to do with probability. What is the probability that a given belief could be correct? I’d imagine that the threshold is different for individuals, but for some maybe that threshold is if the probability is less than 50%, it’s a ridiculous belief. For others (such as myself) I sometimes don’t view the beliefs of others as ridiculous even if the probability is close to 1%.

Maybe it has to do with what our own beliefs are, and how the beliefs of others measure up to them (if there is at least a mild comparison that could be drawn, it ain’t all that ridiculous… if no comparison can be drawn, it’s ridiculous) [?]

[_Who Knows]

Perhaps it more-so has to do with probability. What is the probability that a given belief could be correct?

Yeah, that's one of the things (among others) I was thinking of when I mentioned 'science'.

I’d imagine that the threshold is different for individuals, but for some maybe that threshold is if the probability is less than 50%, it’s a ridiculous belief. For others (such as myself) I sometimes don’t view the beliefs of others as ridiculous even if the probability is close to 1%.

Maybe it has to do with what our own beliefs are, and how the beliefs of others measure up to them (if there is at least a mild comparison that could be drawn, it ain’t all that ridiculous… if no comparison can be drawn, it’s ridiculous) [?]

Maybe. But lets look at it from a 'macro' perspective. In other words, there are things that everyone, on the whole, find ridiculous. Like bigfoot for example. Or the lochness monster. Or the FSM. etc. (...or creationism...?)

What makes those things ridiculous? And then, how can one person see some belief as ridiculous, while at the same time believe in something that everyone else sees as ridiculous? What tools are they using to judge the other ridiculous beliefs, that they aren't using on their own beliefs?

Is it merely like Steuss said - that they simply conflict with our own beliefs? And if so, is that a good measuring stick?

To bring it closer to home - as a believing Mormon 2 years ago, I found the beliefs of scientologists as flat out ridiculous. The reason was probably simply because their beliefs conflicted with my own. Now, is that fair? Or should I have been using some other, more rational (scientific), measuring stick?

Sorry, I'm probably rambling and making sense to no one but myself...

[_karl61]

Perhaps it more-so has to do with probability. What is the probability that a given belief could be correct?

Yeah, that's one of the things (among others) I was thinking of when I mentioned 'science'.

I’d imagine that the threshold is different for individuals, but for some maybe that threshold is if the probability is less than 50%, it’s a ridiculous belief. For others (such as myself) I sometimes don’t view the beliefs of others as ridiculous even if the probability is close to 1%.

Maybe it has to do with what our own beliefs are, and how the beliefs of others measure up to them (if there is at least a mild comparison that could be drawn, it ain’t all that ridiculous… if no comparison can be drawn, it’s ridiculous) [?]

Maybe. But lets look at it from a 'macro' perspective. In other words, there are things that everyone, on the whole, find ridiculous. Like bigfoot for example. Or the lochness monster. Or the FSM. etc. (...or creationism...?)

What makes those things ridiculous? And then, how can one person see some belief as ridiculous, while at the same time believe in something that everyone else sees as ridiculous? What tools are they using to judge the other ridiculous beliefs, that they aren't using on their own beliefs?

Is it merely like Steuss said - that they simply conflict with our own beliefs? And if so, is that a good measuring stick?

To bring it closer to home - as a believing Mormon 2 years ago, I found the beliefs of scientologists as flat out ridiculous. The reason was probably simply because their beliefs conflicted with my own. Now, is that fair? Or should I have been using some other, more rational (scientific), measuring stick?

Sorry, I'm probably rambling and making sense to no one but myself...

If you are now an unbelieving Mormon maybe you should go back and check out the scientology without the Mormon lense.