mentalgymnast wrote:mms wrote:MMS, here. Some of you may know my story from MA&D. I am a thirty-something HP who has served in various ward and stake leadership positions. RM, married in temple (still happily married). I was taught on my mission to run from "anti" materials like they were a naked woman (for those who don't know, missionaries are not supposed to spend time with naked women). It was clear that if something might cause doubt, I was encouraged not to read it. Not all that long ago, a respected leader suggested that Rough Stone Rolling was a good book by a faithful patriarch and would provide far more insight into Joseph Smith. I picked it up. I started reading. My jaw dropped a number of times. I started looking on the internet, still afraid of "anti" materials, so I ended up at FAIR. I read many, many articles, fair wiki, etc. These were supposed to be "faith-promoting" materials, but they were "faith-damaging" in that I had trouble, sincerely, with the arguments--many of them seemed like such a stretch. I kept this stuff to myself, with an occasional discussion with my wife (now she is fully aware of my concerns and is very supportive of me, is not panicking, and, quite frankly is awesome because she is so loyal).
So, not getting much help from the fair and farms articles, and feeling angry (admittedly) because I thought the Church could have and should have done far more to ensure I did not end up in this shocked and surprised state. I lurked briefly at the MA&D board and jumped in too quickly--not knowing exactly what went on there. I thought that these were the people who could help me get to where I needed to get. I explained my situation, how I did not feel like I would intellectually overcome my doubts because the case seemed lopsided against the church in various ways, and that I knew I needed to turn to the Spirit. But I was questioning that (the Spirit) because of a confusion about the distinction between the "warm fuzzies" and the feeling sof the Spirit. I had recently discovered the "Heartsell" method of Bonneville Communications and used it as an exampleof why I was confused about identifying the Spirit.
Well, as you might imagine, I was immediately attcked by the very people I thought would be interested in reaching out to me. They said I was a fraud, a troll (didn't know what that was at the time), an anti posign as a concerned HP, etc. They went nuts on me. Some people were helpful, but they were drowned out by the loud angry voices of Pahoran, Selek, etc. I got defensive quickly and was suspended pretty quickly. I was naïve as it regarded the mesage boards and still am to some extent. They made me pay for that naïvété. I decided not to go back, but then thought I should try to make another go of discussing matters rationally with these folks. My major issue was the apparent belief by many over there that the average active member of the church should actually know about matters that have been intentionally avoided by the church in an effort to portray an "adoring history." It seemed so obvious to me that the church had significant responsibility and these people would be so hard on people for not knowing about polyandry and Joseph Smith's plural marriage issues, etc. So I stayed in the discussion and thought I made some pretty good arguments on the matter, even though I was suspended several times. But I was attacked continually and my "story" was constantly questioned. Selek continues to think that I am some kind of troll who, according to his latest rant, will spend an eternity in hell.
So, oddly, although I did not expect it, I was agreeing more often with the critics than the "defenders" although a review of my posts will, I think, bear out that I made no critical remarks about the church of any significance except that I think the church was indeed responsible--to some degree--for my current state of surprise, doubt and confusion. it is almost as if the defenders decided right from the start that I was a lost cause (with some exceptions--there are indeed a few over there who seem really disciplined and almost never, or never, go on the offensive--they seem the most secure with their faith as a result).
So here I sit considering how to proceed. I talked to my Bishop (with whom I am pretty close). He knew nothing about any of the issues I am concerned with and basically said that he has never looked at the issues, because he does not think he could "handle it." That was helpful :) He is a great guy, though, and his heart is clearly in the right place.
So, sorry for the long story, but for those who have been here--if you have--what happened? Where did you end up and why?
(A little more information about me (I am being quite careful, because I think anonymity is important in my situation), but I am a fairly well-established professional with the respect of many in my ward and stake for my service in the ward and in the stake. Of the five members of my family who joined the church, the others have had nothing to do with the church for at least twenty years (but none have resigned simply because they are too lazy and don't care, so they are part of the 13 million.)
by the way -still totally active and holding a calling.
Hi mms. First of all, I would have to agree with rcrocket in questioning whether you are simply and antagonist masquerading as a sincere seeker for truth. If a young kid can come in here and have the literary sense/ability to "become" a GA and wax great with the supposed ramblings of incompetent and somewhat senile GA's, I wouldn't put it past someone's ability to simply put on an act as a "questioner" with the ultimate goal of creating a thread in which all the skeptics and doubters have their say and then the thread ends.
I will make a leap of faith and assume that you are a sincere seeker for truth rather than a troll or rebel rouser.
I am an active member of the church, albeit I am no longer on the fast track to ward and stake leadership since I asked to be released from the HC a few years ago during a turbulent time of questioning and doubt. I have been in those dark places where many on this board reside. Dark places in regards to testimony/faith in the "Mormon story", that is. I had read everything I could get my hands on from No Man Knows My History to Sidney Rigdon : A Portrait of Religious Excess. There were a lot of books in between. A lot of time spent online in newsgroups at Google Groups, mormon-l, ZLMB, NOM, and others. The future looked pretty bleak. I had been an EQP and was currently on the HC when things reached their head.
I am active now because I gave everything time and patience with further study and thought. It is about that simple. I'm now down the road about fifteen years from the time that I first became involved with mormon-l and "finding things out". I am somewhat comfortable with the position that I am in at this time. A plausible believer with more questions than answers. Some of the answers make enough sense that I am able to put some of questions on the shelf for what I would guess to be the rest of my life. Others I periodically bring down, dust off, and find that there is a bit more understanding/light that has come along in my life so that I am better able to understand the why's and wherefore's of some issues/concerns.
My number one assumption is that there is a God. The God of Genesis Chapter 1:26:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."
If God exists, I choose to believe that we are created in his likeness. I choose to believe that God is love. I also choose to believe that there would have to be some sort of
God driven plan that can bring all his creations happiness throughout an eternal span of eternity. An infinite and eternal atonement of a perfect being could fit within that picture. Jesus Christ. There would indeed have to be
something to enable everything to be made right, if not here, then somewhere else. There is more to life than life in the here and now.
Within the scope of these assumptions I am able to fit almost all the other "stuff" that has come along.
One thing that I continually see jettisoned so easily by the so-called "know it alls" that have figured it all out, is where Jesus Christ fits in to the whole picture. Joseph Smith is looked over with a fine toothed comb. His credentials are scrutinized without end to the ultimate conclusion/end that Joseph Smith is not worthy to act in God's name. Not worthy to wear the mantle of a prophet. A case can be made for these fiery darts thrown against the the Mormon prophet.
The question to be asked when all is said and done, at least as far as I can see, is:
Did the God that we would call our Father restore lost truths, authority, scripture, knowledge, etc. through Joseph Smith? In other words"s, was this particular restoration movement and the later Utah church the fruit of God's love for mankind, and a desire that he may have for his creations/children to become like him? To me, the fruits of the church bear witness of a possible/probable affirmative answer to this question.
So I stay.
Many people after looking at all the evidence still consider Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon to be somewhat of enigmas/puzzles. In my mind, that is as it should be. Why? because one is then left high and dry... or to dig deeper and come to a conclusion/resolution...or not...as to whether or not Jesus Christ is in this church. Not only in name, but in very reality. Uncertainties with Joseph Smith's prophetic "worthiness" or the Book of Mormon's historicity, etc. literally forces one to look deeper.
Or not.
Time and patience are required to look deeper. From personal experience I can say that it is worth the effort.
It's an individual path that each person must make on their own.
This place is definitely not the best place to find those that would encourage you to dig deeper into the things of God/faith/Jesus Christ.
Most of those here have given up the quest, at least within the LDS paradigm, and would just as well have others follow their lead so that they are not alone.
Good luck and Godspeed in your search.
Regards,
MG