Relief Society prez Julie Beck the new "June Cleaver"?

[_mentalgymnast]

Never ever let it be said that the church was concerned about women. Women are useless, except as mothers.

My oh my, what to say...

Distortion.

Regards,
MG

Distortion? Not even. When was the last time we saw a woman called as apostle? Oh yeah... Never. When was the last time we saw a woman called as bishop? Oh yeah... Never. When was the last time a woman had decision making power, without having to ask a man if the decision was okay? Oh yeah... Never.

What is the #1 job of women, according to the church? As mothers. What is the #1 job of men, according to the church? As providers. Not as fathers... as providers. The family doesn't mean zip, when it comes to fathers. That women could also provide is ignored; that men can also nurture is ignored. The church is stuck in a timewarp regarding the gender roles, and I count my lucky stars that my own situation is NOT the Mormon norm. I'd go nuts. I did go nuts, when I was in it for 20 years, but that over now, and I never advise my girls (whether my own or my daughters in law) to stay at home if they don't want to.

What other jobs are women supposed to do? Maid, Cook, Dishwasher, Janitor, Chauffer, teacher of children and other women, leader of children and other women, etc. Anything that doesn't require leadership over men. A woman will never lead a ward, lead a counsel, or lead the church. That alone tells me exactly how much the church values the input of women: exactly zippo.

I suppose I'm not looking at things with the jaundiced eye that you are. I can only go with my personal life experience. Same as you. I've had two women principals (both LDS) during my teaching career. They've both been rather anal...but that's another story <g>.

Pretty much everything I do is to support the needs of my wife and family so that she is able to do her job. I'm somewhat an add on here at home. Her job is at least as important, if not more, than my "bringing home the bacon" job. I have to do what I do. She gets to do what she does. Out of choice. She wouldn't be anywhere else. I've talked about this with her just within the last couple of weeks.

In the community we have women of power and influence. In our ward we have women of power and influence.

It would be interesting to find out within our community, here in Utah County, how many women are in positions of power and influence in the workplace. My guess is that it would be more than you might think.

Regards,
MG

[_karl61]

but it seems that the leaders of the church do not want to see women in any leadership situation except in certain church callings and even there they answer to a male. If I recall correctly, recent thoughts of GAs are for women to return home if they have children - give up the second job, still pay tithing, and listen to the prophet. That's easy to say if you live off of someones tithing and happen to be the prophet.

[_harmony]

I suppose I'm not looking at things with the jaundiced eye that you are. I can only go with my personal life experience. Same as you. I've had two women principals (both LDS) during my teaching career. They've both been rather anal...but that's another story <g>.

Pretty much everything I do is to support the needs of my wife and family so that she is able to do her job. I'm somewhat an add on here at home. Her job is at least as important, if not more, than my "bringing home the bacon" job. I have to do what I do. She gets to do what she does. Out of choice. She wouldn't be anywhere else. I've talked about this with her just within the last couple of weeks.

In the community we have women of power and influence. In our ward we have women of power and influence.

It would be interesting to find out within our community, here in Utah County, how many women are in positions of power and influence in the workplace. My guess is that it would be more than you might think.

Regards,
MG

Well, I can't say anything about Utah county, since I don't live anywhere near there (and never will, if I have anything to say about it). However, I can tell you that where I live there are many many women in positions of power and influence, and true leadership. Not in the church though. Never in the church. In the church, women answer to men, women ask men, women listen to men, women don't make a move without consulting men.

[_Gazelam]

Sorry I didn't respond to this sooner.

I just went through a issue with my wife wanting to go back to work. There are numerous remodeling projects around my house that need attending to. My house was built around 1981, so everything needs ripped out and replaced. Funding is an issue, so to expediate the whole thign she wanted to take up her old job as a dental assistant. Shes very good at her job, and could make over 20 dollars an hour doing it. That would speed up the remodel considerably.

The problem is, we have three children, two of which are in school. Even if they were all in school, someone still needs to be around here in case theres an emergency and they need to come home. She went as far as scheduling a working interview, but she knew she was in the wrong even without us getting into a big blowup about it. Our litle girl didn't need to spend any time in a daycare center, and our boys didn't need to be shuttled around in the morning since her job would have started at 7:30 in the morning. (I leave the house at 3)

I know that some mothers are forced to work due to their circumstances. But I don't think anyone would argue the point that the optimal circumstance is for the mother to be in the home raising her children. If the mother is working outside the home only out of a sence of misplaced pride or accomplishment, she is in the wrong.

A mother in zion is rearing up children with she and her husbands name attached and if married in the temple, sealed upon them. With that in mind, those children will be part of their final judgement, testifying as to what they were taught by their parents. It will be interesting to see how many Nannys are exalted beyond the childrens mothers because of how they fulfilled their resposibilities as caretakers.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Gaz... :-)

I know that some mothers are forced to work due to their circumstances. But I don't think anyone would argue the point that the optimal circumstance is for the mother to be in the home raising her children.

There are those mothers who are not the better parent. There are families who do much better emotionally, physically, mentally, and spiritually as both father and mother share parenting responsibilities.

If the mother is working outside the home only out of a sence of misplaced pride or accomplishment, she is in the wrong.

Are you fine with fathers working outside the home because of "misplaced" pride or accomplishment? Or is pride and a desire for accomplishment fine so long as it is within the male of our species?

To be honest, the fact that some men have this need to keep women in a dependent, subservient, vulnerable situation in a marriage does not set well with me. This male attitude seems to be about pride, egotism, a need for power and authority, and a sort of sick boost to the male ego.

The whole, "I'm not a good parent" idea seems to be an excuse to not have to parent and to keep a woman "in her place."

I find it very unhealthy for individuals, marriages, families, and community.

Oh, also, the fifties Beaver Cleaver idea so desired by LDS leaders is an abberation in all of human history. With the exception of a handful of the very wealthy and powerful, (where women had nannies and servants), women have always participated in providing resources whether it was through gathering, farming, or otherwise participating in society.

:-)

~dancer~

[_Gazelam]

To be honest, the fact that some men have this need to keep women in a dependent, subservient, vulnerable situation in a marriage does not set well with me.

Nor does it sit well with me. Good thing it is not the norm in most cases.

Youve never heard the old phrase Eve was taken from Adams side because that's where she belongs, not behind or ahead, but alongside? Parents are intended to be a team, equal, but with assigned roles, he the provider and she the nurturer.

[_Trinity]

Sorry I didn't respond to this sooner.

I just went through a issue with my wife wanting to go back to work. There are numerous remodeling projects around my house that need attending to. My house was built around 1981, so everything needs ripped out and replaced. Funding is an issue, so to expediate the whole thign she wanted to take up her old job as a dental assistant. she's very good at her job, and could make over 20 dollars an hour doing it. That would speed up the remodel considerably.

The problem is, we have three children, two of which are in school. Even if they were all in school, someone still needs to be around here in case theres an emergency and they need to come home. She went as far as scheduling a working interview, but she knew she was in the wrong even without us getting into a big blowup about it. Our litle girl didn't need to spend any time in a daycare center, and our boys didn't need to be shuttled around in the morning since her job would have started at 7:30 in the morning. (I leave the house at 3)

I know that some mothers are forced to work due to their circumstances. But I don't think anyone would argue the point that the optimal circumstance is for the mother to be in the home raising her children. If the mother is working outside the home only out of a sence of misplaced pride or accomplishment, she is in the wrong.

A mother in zion is rearing up children with she and her husbands name attached and if married in the temple, sealed upon them. With that in mind, those children will be part of their final judgement, testifying as to what they were taught by their parents. It will be interesting to see how many Nannys are exalted beyond the childrens mothers because of how they fulfilled their resposibilities as caretakers.

So let me tell you how this reads to me, Gaz. Your wife has expressed a desire to go back to work. But you can't have that, it would be too inconvenient for you because you might have to help out. Instead, you feel your wife should be sitting at home waiting just "in case" some emergency comes up. (earth to Gaz, there is a thing called a cell phone that enables a mother to be able to be accessed in case of children emergencies.) Perhaps she can make sure she bides her time in between emergencies by doing needlepoint, or perhaps making chocolate chip banana bread. Regardless, you do expect there to be dinner warm and on the table every night when you come home.

If the mother is working outside the home only out of a sence of misplaced pride or accomplishment, she is in the wrong.

Sense of misplaced pride? And why is it that you get to determine what is misplaced or not?

With that in mind, those children will be part of their final judgement, testifying as to what they were taught by their parents.

Really? And do we get to judge God the Father in the same manner? By the testimony of the children? He probably ought to brace himself before I come up to testify. And I'm not even one of those people he drowned or burned.

[_Infymus]

And do we get to judge God the Father in the same manner? By the testimony of the children? He probably ought to brace himself before I come up to testify. And I'm not even one of those people he drowned or burned.

I love this Trinity. Mention the ability of man to judge God and watch Mormons squirm. They can't fathom it. It's like saying why can't women hold the Priesthood? Because "it isn't the way things are."

[_karl61]

I know some of my sisters suffered real bad depression when they stayed home after having kids and were not working. Somehow the depression lifted when they went back to work. My oldest sister, the TBM, stay at home utah mom, almost OD'd on anti-depressents and when I heard it from another sister , it was like saying Boyd K. Packer almost OD'd on anti-depressants. It blew me away. One thing I hope women do is use that money wisely. To work just to have a bigger car or have a SUV is insane. A house is an investment but not a car, except my car;) But I have no problem with a woman being the full time worker and the husband the part time one.

[_Gazelam]

Here is the talk in question. This is the written version so you can print it off and read it. The video version is also available.

http://www.LDS.org/conference/talk/disp ... 27,00.html