Is it Easier to "Rat" People Out in the LDS Chuch?

[_Jason Bourne]

What do you think happens when a member requests to no longer be a member or is Xed?

I do not have to think about what happens, I KNOW what happens.

I'm pretty sure their names are kept on file with a notation that they have either been xed or asked to have their names removed.

Do you have an evidence for this?

The names no longer are on the ward or stake list but they are still there in the database of church members!

That depends what you mean by roles.

The MLS program that is used by wards and stakes no longer lists them as a member. There may be some data base somewhere about them so if the ex'd member is ever re baptized the information about them can be available to reinstate them. The same may be true of a resigned member. So thinking the process through yes there would be information kept somewhere. But only a bishop or SP can get that information by special request to the membership dept when they are reconvening a council to re-admit the member.

For example I was involved in the re-admission of a man that had been ex'd about 40 years ago as a bishop. I had to request from SLC his prior records, etc so when he was re baptized all the former dates and ties to his family etc were back in our ward records. The same was true when his blessings were restored. His prior ordination dates and temple endowment date were merged back into our local records.

Do you think when a person is Xed that they are taken off the roles as never having been a member? Nope!

As noted, there would be information maintained for reasons described above. So I guess I am conceding this point to a certain extent.

From a reliable source, the church knows if someone has been either xed or had their name removed, and rebaptism requires something more than a first time baptism. :-) A second rebaptism, If I recall correctly requires special permission from the FP.

Yes I agree with that. Re baptism does require FP permission so some data base needs to be maintained. I understand where you are coming from. Access to this is severely restricted. I thought initially you meant the ward list, that people still showed up as a member there. I agree that records on why, how, when etc, someone exited the church. This so the proper protocol can be followed on re-admission.

[_Yoda]

Yes I agree with that. Re baptism does require FP permission so some data base needs to be maintained. I understand where you are coming from. Access to this is severely restricted. I thought initially you meant the ward list, that people still showed up as a member there. I agree that records on why, how, when etc, someone exited the church. This so the proper protocol can be followed on re-admission.

Jason, do you know how these ex-members are counted as far as the general membership is concerned? I think that what Scratch is getting at is that even though these folks have been excommunicated or have resigned, they are still counted in the total numbers when data is generated and announced regarding total Church members.

Do you have any information regarding how this is calculated?

[_The Nehor]

An excommunicated member is removed from the ward clerk lists. There is a database in Salt Lake that keeps track of their names. The only use I ever saw for it as a clerk was to refresh baptismal and ordinance dates if they're rebaptized.

[_Yoda]

An excommunicated member is removed from the ward clerk lists. There is a database in Salt Lake that keeps track of their names. The only use I ever saw for it as a clerk was to refresh baptismal and ordinance dates if they're rebaptized.

So, in the count of total members that they announce at General Conference, are these folks tallied in as part of that membership or not?

[_James Muir]

I got dynamics that make devils jaws drop agape and angels at my side constantly protecting. I want friends. I just want them jacked up to where I can relate to them.

As a demon I wish to inform you that your dynamics....whatever that means.....don't even scare loser first-year imps. Delusions of grandeur....look it up.

You might consider pothead circles. They're jacked up to your level.

Point of logic friend. If you do not know what my dynamics are or what that means how can you qualify it or define it delusional? I know that with evil its all slander all day and when its not slander its making accusations between times.

You claim to be a demon however is on its face a mental illness. We all know that you are just joking around, and so we know you are not mentally ill. I give you that. Why cut me no slack jack.

[_The Nehor]

An excommunicated member is removed from the ward clerk lists. There is a database in Salt Lake that keeps track of their names. The only use I ever saw for it as a clerk was to refresh baptismal and ordinance dates if they're rebaptized.

So, in the count of total members that they announce at General Conference, are these folks tallied in as part of that membership or not?

I would guess not but I have no evidence.

[_Belial]

I got dynamics that make devils jaws drop agape and angels at my side constantly protecting. I want friends. I just want them jacked up to where I can relate to them.

As a demon I wish to inform you that your dynamics....whatever that means.....don't even scare loser first-year imps. Delusions of grandeur....look it up.

You might consider pothead circles. They're jacked up to your level.

Point of logic friend. If you do not know what my dynamics are or what that means how can you qualify it or define it delusional? I know that with evil its all slander all day and when its not slander its making accusations between times.

You claim to be a demon however is on its face a mental illness. We all know that you are just joking around, and so we know you are not mentally ill. I give you that. Why cut me no slack jack.

I know what the word dynamic means. I just suspect you don't. I didn't cut you no slack jaw because I have not the slightest idea what you are talking about. I suspect that the mushrooms you are ingesting to learn your deep and solemn thoughts and to improve your excellent dynamics are also improving your command of logic to beyond mortal ability (in one direction or the other).

We would like to welcome you to Hell based on your above statements regarding accusations. You've accused the entirety of the LDS Church of being Druids/Witches/Devil Worshippers (lot of multi-classing there) and we'd like you to know that we'll send a devil over immediately with a "Why should I sell my Soul?" pamphlet immediately.

[_Jason Bourne]

Yes I agree with that. Re baptism does require FP permission so some data base needs to be maintained. I understand where you are coming from. Access to this is severely restricted. I thought initially you meant the ward list, that people still showed up as a member there. I agree that records on why, how, when etc, someone exited the church. This so the proper protocol can be followed on re-admission.

Jason, do you know how these ex-members are counted as far as the general membership is concerned? I think that what Scratch is getting at is that even though these folks have been excommunicated or have resigned, they are still counted in the total numbers when data is generated and announced regarding total Church members.

Do you have any information regarding how this is calculated?

I do not think they are counted in total membership. Just take the prior year membership number and subtract it from the newest one. Look at the difference. Then compare that to the total convert and child of record baptisms. That number is always higher. Subtract the net difference from the converts and child of records and you see some shrinkage. How much is deaths vs. excommunication and removal requests I do not know.

[_Yoda]

I do not think they are counted in total membership. Just take the prior year membership number and subtract it from the newest one. Look at the difference. Then compare that to the total convert and child of record baptisms. That number is always higher. Subtract the net difference from the converts and child of records and you see some shrinkage. How much is deaths vs. excommunication and removal requests I do not know.

Interesting. I always thought that children of record were included in the overall numbers whether or not they were baptized.

[_Trevor]

So, in the count of total members that they announce at General Conference, are these folks tallied in as part of that membership or not?

I thought it was the case that all people are counted until they reach 120 years from their birthdate, at which point they drop from the membership statistics.