Enduring to the End

[_Scottie]

To endure the demon, or to endure the battle against the demon seems silly. Why not stop enduring, and win?

Did you have bouts of depression, or did you suffer clinical depression?

I, personally, have never suffered depression. And it's all too easy for those that have never suffered it to judge those that do and say, "Geez, just be happy!! Look at how much there is to be happy about!!"

It's just not that easy. Clinical depression is a physical ailment. You would never tell a diabetic to "just don't have diabetes", would you? They are similar diseases.

I have my own crosses to bear, but they pale in comparison to someone that suffers from depression. My heart goes out to all of you and I hold you in the highest respect for the battle that you are constantly fighting to "endure to the end".

[_keene]

To endure the demon, or to endure the battle against the demon seems silly. Why not stop enduring, and win?

Did you have bouts of depression, or did you suffer clinical depression?

The doctors couldn't agree on what to call it. It was clinical depression, manic depressive disorder, bipolar disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, and it even got to the point where they were thinking it could be mild schitzophrenia.

I, personally, have never suffered depression. And it's all too easy for those that have never suffered it to judge those that do and say, "Geez, just be happy!! Look at how much there is to be happy about!!"

It's just not that easy. Clinical depression is a physical ailment. You would never tell a diabetic to "just don't have diabetes", would you? They are similar diseases.

I highly disagree. The chemical imbalance of depression often isn't because of some glandular disorder. Many times it's caused simply because of recurring thought patterns pumping out the same chemicals over and over again. Medication can help releive the balance, but if the thought patterns remain the same, then eventually the mind will make up for the meds and get depressed again.

So, to say to someone "just don't do depression anymore" is VERY different from "just don't have diabetes." Instead it's more like "just don't eat sugar anymore."

I have my own crosses to bear, but they pale in comparison to someone that suffers from depression. My heart goes out to all of you and I hold you in the highest respect for the battle that you are constantly fighting to "endure to the end".

Although your respect is appreciated, I can't help but feel it's a justification for those with depression. Being in the state of depression is very similar to being in a hypnotic trance, and every suggestion that enhances the depression puts you deeper in that trance. The phrase "The battle that you are constantly fighting" is actually a post hypnotic suggestion that convinces our mind to keep fighting the battle, even if there isn't one to fight.

[_Runtu]

keene,

I appreciate what you've said. For me, the medication helps, but changing the thought processes is what is making the big difference, and not surprisingly it isn't easy to overcome years of faulty thought processes. As even Wade recognizes, cognitive behavioral therapy can do wonders for depression when used with proper medication.

So far, it's helping, and I'm doing a little better every day. I'm going to remember that: I'm not going to "do" depression anymore. An excellent thought.

[_keene]

keene,

I appreciate what you've said. For me, the medication helps, but changing the thought processes is what is making the big difference, and not surprisingly it isn't easy to overcome years of faulty thought processes. As even Wade recognizes, cognitive behavioral therapy can do wonders for depression when used with proper medication.

So far, it's helping, and I'm doing a little better every day. I'm going to remember that: I'm not going to "do" depression anymore. An excellent thought.

Some of the things that helped me:

"Awareness" by Anthony DeMello -- this book really helped shine the light on what was going on behind the scenes in my mind.
"Think and Grow Rich" by Napolean Hill -- the exersizes in this book are very helpful in replacing the negative thoughts with positive ones
"The Power of Now" by Eckhard Tolle -- I'm going through this one right now, and I wish I had it during my initial struggles.
"Zen and the Art of Motercycle Maintenance" by Robert Pirsig -- this one's kinda trippy, but there's some hidden messages that are really quite profound.

I also found that having a mentor was a much more powerful tool than having a therapist. Therapists tend to focus on what's wrong, while mentors try to teach you what's right.

[_Scottie]

Thanks for your thoughts, both of you.

Like I said, I've never suffered depression, and I agree that it can be a mental disorder just as easily as it can be physical. Or a combination of both.

From what I understand, if the problem is too far on the physical side, no amount of therapy or thought behavior changes will help.

[_keene]

Thanks for your thoughts, both of you.

Like I said, I've never suffered depression, and I agree that it can be a mental disorder just as easily as it can be physical. Or a combination of both.

From what I understand, if the problem is too far on the physical side, no amount of therapy or thought behavior changes will help.

Yeah, that's the currently accepted theory. But then, this theory comes from the same guys who thought that halucinating dead relatives in empty furniture and yelling at them would make people MORE sane.

I would really like to see tools like Extacy and LSD used in depression treatment for those cases where the physical elements are too far gone. A few trips or rolls, and the brain chemestry is pushed so far into a different direction, it makes changing thought patterns quite easy. And in the case of LSD, the drug is out of your system by the end of the session, instead of having a 6 month half-life like most of the SSRI's on the market today.

[_barrelomonkeys]

THIS has done more for me than anything in days.

Oh my! Don't know if it'll have the same effect on the fellas. But give it a try!

Woo boy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by8oyJzt ... ed&search=

[_karl61]

wow! Thanks monkeys!

[_mormonmistress]

Sure we endure some things in life, but life itself shouldn't be endured. I still take issue with the word. Who thought that one up anyway?

[_Trinity]

This is what I learned about the term "endure to the end."

The church teaches that the gospel plan is glad tidings. It is a plan of happiness. Adherence to it will bring the Spirit of direction, peace, consolation, so on and so forth. Manuals approach it that way. Happy happy joy joy, this is the emphasis. There is a cause and effect pattern that is established. Pray, read the scriptures, have faith, attend your church meetings. It is all a prescription for a happy, fulfilling life.

Until it doesn't work. And something bad happens. And people go "why did that bad thing happen to such a good person?" And the same prescription that had previously worked all of the sudden no longer works.

And THEN out pops endure to the end. Since the glad tidings appeared to be flawed at some level, there has to be an explanation. Endurance is asking a person to have faith even when it appears the prescription is no longer working. That life is more about the act of overcoming hurdles and it is the valiant person who is blessed with such trials as to make them grow stronger.

Endurance is what you do when the prescription is no longer effective.